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  1. #1
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    water loop heat pump in shoping mall

    Im doing a shoping mall energy audit as a scolar project , the shoping center spplies the retailers with constant temperture water in witch they connect thier internal cooling/heating unit.

    Water is continuously cerculationg with constante temperture 24/24 thanks to 6 pumps & DRY cooling tower.

    the mall operation schuel is 9 AM -10 PM , i wender if stoping the water pump & the Drycooling tower during the night would be a raisonable energy conservation mesure & if stoping water cerculation would/wouldnt affect the Water loop system ?

  2. #2
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    "If", ..... You are Truly doing an Audit, ...

    You absolutely are going to have to improve Your Spelling Skills.

  3. Likes kdean1 liked this post
  4. #3
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidDeBord View Post
    "If", ..... You are Truly doing an Audit, ...

    You absolutely are going to have to improve Your Spelling Skills.
    hello im not a native english spiker ;(

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  6. #4
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    Not a good idea unless you are also disabling the heat pumps as well.

    I'd be more inclined to look at the return temperature and control the speed of the pump(s) based on that.

  7. #5
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    Thread Starter
    do you mean by heat pumps the internal units of the retailers ?
    what would happen if the heatpumps are enables but water is no more flowing ?

  8. #6
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    Thread Starter
    do you mean by heat pumps the internal units of the retailers ?
    what would happen if the heatpumps are enabled but water is no more flowing ?

  9. #7
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    Tripped limits, possible freeze up..

  10. #8
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    The information is too vague to even post a reply to your question. Just shutting the water off is likely going to be disasterous. What climate zone is this in? What type of equipment is heating and cooling the water? What is the scope of the "audit"? If the whole mall is truly a single loop, I'd guess you have a large chiller/ heat pump, in which case it needs "loaded" to function correctly. The pumps are likely interlocked with logic controllers.

  11. #9
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    Thread Starter
    Hello
    the shoping center is in morocco ''temprate climate " in casablanca a Coastal Citiy , im auditing only the shoping center HVAC & lightning systems , the clients ie (shpos & restaurants) are not included , the hallwys & corridors of the shop are conditioned using packaged rooftops , the mall includes many shpos & restaurants , the majority is connceted to the water loop with thiers internal units , therse all sort shops in the mall , small shops use generaly dedicated heat pumps like those with water chilled i noticed Ceiling Cassettes are used in several shops also in other shops i noticed big square ducts (witch is probably arriving from a rooftop) , i coudnt get any information from the shop responsables as techncians arent there & the shops are not included in the audit , but the center is on charge of the water loop system (2 DRYCOOLERS and 6 + 2 pumps) , thats why im trying to find energy conservation mesure or retrofit for it.

  12. #10
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by BSU_Energy View Post
    The information is too vague to even post a reply to your question. Just shutting the water off is likely going to be disasterous. What climate zone is this in? What type of equipment is heating and cooling the water? What is the scope of the "audit"? If the whole mall is truly a single loop, I'd guess you have a large chiller/ heat pump, in which case it needs "loaded" to function correctly. The pumps are likely interlocked with logic controllers.
    Hello
    the shoping center is in morocco ''temprate climate " in casablanca a Coastal Citiy , im auditing only the shoping center HVAC & lightning systems , the clients ie (shpos & restaurants) are not included , the hallwys & corridors of the shop are conditioned using packaged rooftops , the mall includes many shpos & restaurants , the majority is connceted to the water loop with thiers internal units , therse all sort shops in the mall , small shops use generaly dedicated heat pumps like those with water chilled i noticed Ceiling Cassettes are used in several shops also in other shops i noticed big square ducts (witch is probably arriving from a rooftop) , i coudnt get any information from the shop responsables as techncians arent there & the shops are not included in the audit , but the center is on charge of the water loop system (2 DRYCOOLERS and 6 + 2 pumps) , thats why im trying to find energy conservation mesure or retrofit for it.

  13. #11
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    If you can't include the tennant's equipment don't know how you can turn off your loop. Would have to know how all the equipment is piped to see if water flows could be cut back or balanced and if water temps could be raised. Need a good ems system to see all equipment. Water treatment? All plays a part.

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  15. #12
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    Oct 2000
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    Sacramento Area, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOVAC View Post
    Im doing a shoping mall energy audit as a scolar project , the shoping center spplies the retailers with constant temperture water in witch they connect thier internal cooling/heating unit.

    Water is continuously cerculationg with constante temperture 24/24 thanks to 6 pumps & DRY cooling tower.

    the mall operation schuel is 9 AM -10 PM , i wender if stoping the water pump & the Drycooling tower during the night would be a raisonable energy conservation mesure & if stoping water cerculation would/wouldnt affect the Water loop system ?
    Shutting down the pumps when not needed would absolutely make sense as an energy savings measure, but in the case of a retrofit it can be expensive. As others have mentioned, there needs to be an interlock (preferably DDC Controls) between the heat pumps and the pumping system, or flow switches to prevent the units from running with no flow. I have retrofitted a number of large buildings where the pumps ran 24/7 by interlocking the pumping system with the heat pumps as part of DDC control retrofit projects.

    In California, Title 24 now requires pumping systems to be variable flow which requires VFD's and controls for the pumps, and a control valve to isolate each heat pump condenser when not calling for heating or cooling.

    Depending on the number of units, access, etc. a retrofit may or may not be cost effective. I have seen systems with hundreds of heat pumps and smaller ones with a few dozen, so it really depends. If the ROI is longer than a few years or less with some owners, such an upgrade may be a tough sell.

    Good luck with your project.

  16. #13
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    Feb 2019
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    Electrical wiring

    the shopping
    the
    focus is in Morocco
    ''temperate
    atmosphere " in Casablanca a Beachfront City, I'm reviewing just the shopping focus central air and lightning frameworks, the customers ie (shops and eateries) are excluded , the hallway and passageways of the shop are molded utilizing bundled housetops , the shopping center incorporates numerous shops and eateries, the lion's share is connected to the water circle with thiers inside units , these all sort shops in the shopping center , little shops utilize generally devoted warmth siphons like those with water chilled I saw Roof Tapes are utilized in a few shops likewise in different shops I saw huge square conduits (which is presumably touching base from a housetop), I couldn't get any data from the shop responsible as technicians aren't there and the shops are excluded in the review, but rather the middle is on charge of the water circle framework (2 DRYCOOLERS and 6 + 2 siphons), that is the reason I'm endeavoring to discover vitality preservation measure or retrofit for it.

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