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  1. #1
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    Jun 2012
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    Swimming Pool HVAC

    A builder I've been with for a long time is building a pool house for his self. The pool is 15' x 8' x 5' deep and produces a current to swim against. The structure has morphed to 24' x32', will have cathedral ceiling and lots of windows. Originally, when structure was smaller I was going with minisplit (s) but now considering furnace and spiral. Inside will be cedar T&G.

    Pool uses ozone and no chlorine for water treatment.

    Ceiling fan in cathedral?

    If pool is covered when not in use how much trouble will humidity be? I've asked what temp he wants water and he doesn't know.

    Location is southern MI. 50% humidity in winter will rain on the windows. Design would be much easier with no windows. If it costs a ton to mitigate humidity he might go that route.

    Wondering if cooling will be needed in summer. July highs are 80 to 85ish sometimes but rarely 95. Pool is shaded by building except solar through windows if unshaded.

    Any recommendations, observations, opinionations?

  2. #2
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    Jun 2014
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    I havent failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison

    Its not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get up. - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486 Instructor & Service Technician

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    edmonds wa
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    Get a dedicated pool unit and the design help that will come with it. Skimping on either will guarantee bad results.
    UA Local 32 retired as of Jan 2020

  4. Likes BALloyd, icy78, kangaroogod, hvacskills liked this post
  5. #4
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    Thread Starter
    Design help is ambiguous. A salesman for any company will have design professionals standing by. Anybody have experience with poolpak?

  6. #5
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    I’m a certified PoolPak service and commissioning tech. I talk to the factory guys at least once a week.
    I havent failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison

    Its not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get up. - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486 Instructor & Service Technician

  7. Likes hvacskills liked this post
  8. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    Philadelphia area
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    Yea if you dont go poolpak/dectron/desert aire pool dehumidification unit then youll be ripping those walls down after a few months from mold problems. Youll need dehumidification control year round. Reheat in the winter/ straight ac in the summer. Youll need a boiler for the reheat coil as well. If the customer is not willing to spend the money to do it right my advice would be to walk away from it.

  9. Likes hvacskills liked this post
  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bglenn525 View Post
    Yea if you dont go poolpak/dectron/desert aire pool dehumidification unit then youll be ripping those walls down after a few months from mold problems. Youll need dehumidification control year round. Reheat in the winter/ straight ac in the summer. Youll need a boiler for the reheat coil as well. If the customer is not willing to spend the money to do it right my advice would be to walk away from it.
    Units are available with several kinds of heat. A boiler is not required.
    Smaller units like the Pool ComPak series will likely use an electric heat strip for reheat.
    I havent failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison

    Its not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get up. - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486 Instructor & Service Technician

  11. Likes hvacskills liked this post
  12. #8
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider77 View Post
    Units are available with several kinds of heat. A boiler is not required.
    Smaller units like the Pool ComPak series will likely use an electric heat strip for reheat.
    This is true...but in michigan if your primary source of heat for a room is electric heat your energy bill is going to be absolutely ridiculous. Also if the customer already has a boiler it might be a possibility to add a zone/upgrade the current boiler to add a zone.

  13. #9
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    That is correct, an existing hydronic system makes for an easy source of heat. Providing the customer doesn’t shut the boilers down in the summer.
    Gas heat is also available, and the bigger SWHP and MPK units have air heating using the compressors as well.
    I havent failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison

    Its not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get up. - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486 Instructor & Service Technician

  14. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bglenn525 View Post
    This is true...but in michigan if your primary source of heat for a room is electric heat your energy bill is going to be absolutely ridiculous. Also if the customer already has a boiler it might be a possibility to add a zone/upgrade the current boiler to add a zone.
    and if there not willing to accept that walk away!

    There's a reason these systems cost as much as they do. Pay now or more later!

  15. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Thread Starter
    I was looking at the compak which goes down to 2 tons. Still looking for a dealer. How long do these last?

    I'll need a gas option as already said electric bill would be too heavy. I wonder though, if pool is kept covered will extraordinary means be needed.

    No boiler here. If not combined equipment like poolpak, what about standard furnace, ac and dehumidifier ducted to outside? Maybe mechanical ventilation governed by humidstate? I'd prefer one unit that does it all but l'm guessing that route is crazy pricey.

    I need to get some humidity calcs done.

    Pool stuff=headache

  16. #12
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    Nanitorium equipment lifespan depends on maintenance, environment and how the pool is treated chemically. The oldest units I currently have are ~20-25 years old. They can live a very hard life, especially if the customer allows the machine to go down without repairs for long periods.
    Regarding the conventional system approach you suggested, I wouldn’t expect it to last long.
    For example, I had an LA Fitness a few years ago where someone had attempted to use a Carrier RTU for a pool room combined with a few portable dehumidifiers. The effects of the moisture and pool chemicals rotted the inside of the RTU to nothing within 1.5 to 2 years. To a point where the entire blower motor broke off it’s base while it was running, and proceeded to bounce around the blower compartment still running until it shorted out a wiring harness and blew the breaker.
    PoolPak actually sold them a unit, but paid us to cobble the Carrier back together until the new unit could be built and shipped to the site.
    Also, your unit is going to be exposed to constant hot indoor conditions. Remember that the indoor air setpoint should always be at least 2* higher then pool water temp. So if your running an 85* pool your air temperature setpoint is going to be a minimum of 87*.
    Nanitorium service work is good business. I could only take calls for that type of work and stay plenty busy.
    The smallest Pool ComPak units are going to resemble a large residential air handler and may only have hydronic or electric heat options. I’m not sure on exact availability of everything as I don’t see a lot of the little guys. They aren’t going to have all the bells and whistles of the big units. But they do a good job and hold up well.
    The remote condenser for the little ones will look just like a standard residential condenser. They come pre-equipped for cold weather operation.
    The website should have a dealer locator in your area.
    They will also have specific names of technicians for each company authorized to work on the equipment listed under each service provider/dealer.
    Or you could just cal them. They are actually very quick to pick up the phone. Their service department is great to work with. I talk to them frequently so they can list problems I encounter under each serial number.
    I havent failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison

    Its not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get up. - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486 Instructor & Service Technician

  17. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Medford, N.Y.
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    OP."will extraordinary means be needed" Post #11. WHAT?
    OP "Pool stuff= headache" WHAT??
    OP I think that a little attitude adjustment is needed here. As said by others, DO IT RIGHT or walk away.

    This GC that you have been working w/ for years, he will not like you so much any more if you sell him crap equipment in a crap pool structure using crap ambiguous formulas. I have good factory info/knowledge/LAWS/rules/Engineering backup for each NATATORIUM that I work on. And there are a lot of "things" that make a Good Proper Pool System run correctly. You can download lots & lots of studying/reading material on BASIC pool info. LOTS OF INFO!!!!!!

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