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  1. #1
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    Oct 2015
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    I know this is hvac but I am looking for myself-water heater with psc vent motor

    Ok guys have a 14 year old power vent water heater time to change before it leaks. So I am looking for which manufactures put the more efficient psc vent motor instead of the cheap shaded pole motor. I am talking standard 40 gal. water heater not a condensing or wall mount. I have seen them but I am unable to get any info for this online or from wholesalers unless they open one up. So I can either wait till I see one again or I can ask here and install one this week. I even emailed couple of mfg early yesterday so my guess is they have the shaded pole motors.

    WHY I ASK My current w/h draws 2.7 amps rated at 3.0 holy cow my furnace heats the house most of the time with around 1.8 amps (2 stage furnace) high fire furnace draws around 4.5 amps. But just to heat water 2.7 amps that is ridiculous. I do not have a chimney so I need a power vent but When I buy one I can get one that doesn't waste electricity.
    There is only one truly right way to do something, but there are thousands of wrong ways to varying degrees to do it.
    So the question is: If you don't do it right, then how wrong is it going to be???

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Iowa
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    As a master Plumber as well as HVAC let me offer some thoughts

    Do you have any indication or experience your water heater is nearing a replacement after 14 years. In my city it is not uncommon for water heaters to last 25 to 30 years because of the water quality. My personal water heater was 35 years old when it started to leak. And I had some tell-tale signs such as gurggling, popping noises, drain valve plugged with scale, ......

    Since we are here in the General Forum can't really discuss actual costs, but.....

    In answer to one of your questions once upon a time I could get a fan/motor assembly with a PSC motor from Grainger but the cost was high, as much as a standard 40 gallon water heater.

    I would not use the your old water heater fan rating as the comparison. The costs of water heater has gone up substantially over the past few years due to increased efficienciy requirements. Go to Home Depot or Lowes or any other big box home store you have, they will likley have a new power vent on display. See what the new fam motors are rated at.

    If the fan rating is still about the same. A water heater when filled with 100% cold water will burn for about 30 to 45 minutes. In normal use a water heater will run for 20 to 30 minutes. For discussion purposes let's just say a Power Vent water heater does a heat cycle 6 times per day and runs for 30 minutes each time. A total run time of 3 hours per day. Let's also say we can reduce the power consumption by 0.5 amps, so 150 watts per day or about 4500 watts per month or 54 kilowatts per year. At $0.12 per kilowatt that's about $7 per year cost savings. So just based on the costs I know, the water heater would have to have a 71 year life to pay for cost of the more efficient motor.

    Try Grainger they will likely have something.

    Good Luck

  3. Likes VTP99 liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Illinois
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    Thread Starter
    i want to replace it before trouble. On the other side of the wall is carpeting, and they did not do a good job of sloping to the drains either. So think of as insurance, just like I replaced the sump pump that I don't think ever ran to be safe. Several of the neighbors have been replaced because of leaking so it is being proactive. Also it has been my experience that in general shaded pole motors are noisier than psc on inducers. Ours in point happens to be Branford White and you can here it anywhere in the house, even second floor W/H in basement. As a company we install the Branford White brand. I know that the cost of a inducer motor drawing 3 amps is not a boat load of money. It is the principle and I want to reward a manufacture for using a better motor. My other house sold 2 year ago had a water heater that was not newer when I bought it in 89 and it was still going along with the 2 - 1977 furnaces. But that basement also id not matter if there was a little water either.

    I could say the same about cars. Why do people buy a new car when their car is not even 10 years old, there is still lots of life in them!!
    There is only one truly right way to do something, but there are thousands of wrong ways to varying degrees to do it.
    So the question is: If you don't do it right, then how wrong is it going to be???

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Iowa
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    Don't get me wrong I'm all in favor of being proactive.

    Is there any way you can isolated the water, drain the water heater and slide a piece of sheet metal under it, then bend the sides up and make a drain/leak pan to minimize potential damage?

    What size is the vent 2"? What has worked for me in the past is to increase the vent to 3" it has quieted many a noisy installation

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Answer-Man View Post
    As a master Plumber as well as HVAC let me offer some thoughts

    Do you have any indication or experience your water heater is nearing a replacement after 14 years. In my city it is not uncommon for water heaters to last 25 to 30 years because of the water quality. My personal water heater was 35 years old when it started to leak. And I had some tell-tale signs such as gurggling, popping noises, drain valve plugged with scale, ......

    Since we are here in the General Forum can't really discuss actual costs, but.....

    In answer to one of your questions once upon a time I could get a fan/motor assembly with a PSC motor from Grainger but the cost was high, as much as a standard 40 gallon water heater.

    I would not use the your old water heater fan rating as the comparison. The costs of water heater has gone up substantially over the past few years due to increased efficienciy requirements. Go to Home Depot or Lowes or any other big box home store you have, they will likley have a new power vent on display. See what the new fam motors are rated at.

    If the fan rating is still about the same. A water heater when filled with 100% cold water will burn for about 30 to 45 minutes. In normal use a water heater will run for 20 to 30 minutes. For discussion purposes let's just say a Power Vent water heater does a heat cycle 6 times per day and runs for 30 minutes each time. A total run time of 3 hours per day. Let's also say we can reduce the power consumption by 0.5 amps, so 150 watts per day or about 4500 watts per month or 54 kilowatts per year. At $0.12 per kilowatt that's about $7 per year cost savings. So just based on the costs I know, the water heater would have to have a 71 year life to pay for cost of the more efficient motor.

    Try Grainger they will likely have something.

    Good Luck
    Im lucky to get 7-1/2 - 10 years out of my water heaters.

  7. #6
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    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    Im lucky to get 7-1/2 - 10 years out of my water heaters.
    Have you looked at this yet?
    https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/w...-water-heaters

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    California
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecmsg View Post
    These are over priced, mechanical money pits that were code for all electric home, new construction, but not anymore. Just buy the best insulated water heater you can find, (Solar H2o Storage Grade), and put a timer on it, if you are all electric.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Billington Heights, NY
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    I have had a few different models of tankless (not because of failures. mainly to try them out). I highly recommend a Navien if you can afford something like that. They work really well, tech support is awesome, and they do have a 15 year HX warranty.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Buffalo,NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC_Marc View Post
    I have had a few different models of tankless (not because of failures. mainly to try them out). I highly recommend a Navien if you can afford something like that. They work really well, tech support is awesome, and they do have a 15 year HX warranty.
    I wonder what the actual cost savings is when you figure in the actual maintenance. Also figuring your flash heating that water in the winter from 34ish degrees to 110-120f?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #10
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    Mar 2013
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    Billington Heights, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalman0880 View Post
    I wonder what the actual cost savings is when you figure in the actual maintenance. Also figuring your flash heating that water in the winter from 34ish degrees to 110-120f?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The savings are pretty good over the long term. Maintenance in our area is cleaning the flame sensor, emptying the intake screen, and flushing the trap every 3 years, and depending on usage, cleaning the exchanger every 2. We cant put pricing here but I charge under 2 bills for a HX flush. it's no big deal.

    but something to remember - tankless isnt about savings. it's about endless hot water.

  12. Likes ga-hvac-tech, Metalman0880 liked this post
  13. #11
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    Sep 2007
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    edmonds wa
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    They do make units that are next to an outside wall that do not use a power vent. They do have venting limitations though.
    UA Local 32

  14. #12
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    Mar 2013
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    Billington Heights, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by buford View Post
    They do make units that are next to an outside wall that do not use a power vent. They do have venting limitations though.
    Direct vent tanks are mega expensive (at least they are here).

  15. #13
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    Sep 2007
    Location
    edmonds wa
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    But you save those KW of electric units, and they work during a power outage!
    UA Local 32

  16. Likes HVAC_Marc, Juan Madera liked this post
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