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  1. #40
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    Mar 2016
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    Dayton Oh
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvpbnl View Post
    Yeah, mixing the two oils is not a good idea. The compressors name plate indicate they were charged with 70 oz. of mineral oil. We plan to remove the compressors and measure what we take out of the system. After a nitrogen blow out of the coils and heat exchangers, leak check and evacuation down to a least 250 microns we will then charge with POE based on name plate. The residual mineral trace oil should not be a issue. We will then charge the system with R-422b which can handle some MO.
    So your going to take a complete good, leak free system, and replace the 22 just cause? Did I miss that it has a leak somewhere that requires constant filling? I just dont understand walking up to a system and saying yeah its 22 we need to convert, if the system is not leaking or have other issues?
    What did i miss?

  2. #41
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    Jan 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhenergy View Post
    So your going to take a complete good, leak free system, and replace the 22 just cause? Did I miss that it has a leak somewhere that requires constant filling? I just dont understand walking up to a system and saying yeah its 22 we need to convert, if the system is not leaking or have other issues?
    What did i miss?
    You missed nothing and you're spot on.
    1 - R422b is almost as expensive as R22
    2 - R422b has a glide and can be problematic topping off
    3 - POE is very hydroscopic
    4 - POE is more expensive
    5 - POE is a cleaning agent
    6 - R422b has a capacity loss to R22
    Yeah it makes no sense to me as well.

  3. #42
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    Oct 2016
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    Clearwater, Florida
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    I could see someone retrofitting just to get it over with but I wouldn't personally do it until there was some sort of problem which would just make the retrofit another step in the repair. Like replacing a compressor or condenser or something like that.

  4. #43
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    Mar 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olivero View Post
    I could see someone retrofitting just to get it over with but I wouldn't personally do it until there was some sort of problem which would just make the retrofit another step in the repair. Like replacing a compressor or condenser or something like that.
    I just feel opening up the system, removing the compressors to drain the oil, then putting it all back together will A. be pretty expensive, and B. cause a lot of headaches.

    Also, if one of those working perfectly fine for 20 years compressors dies next year, there will be finger pointing. A lot of finger pointing.
    If the customer see's a value in it then go for it.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    The oils mix fine. No issues. That's a myth how it creates goop and clogs etc.
    MO, AB, POE and PVE all mix. I do refrigeration so we run into that on changeovers all the time.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Trinity Florida
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    The main reason for the conversion from R-22 was not noted. The system has incorporated outdoor coils for heat rejection. The unit also has water heat exchangers to permit heat rejection into the pool water. The outdoor coils created a chalanging charge in that the refrigerant would migrate to the cold outside coils in winter. Getting the system up to a clear sight glass during cold environments would cause an over charge in the warmer climates. After chasing the charge for 20 years, the coils are being eliminated. The heat rejection will be into the pool only. The pool has sliding glass panels that tuns the pool into an outdoor pool in summer.
    That being said, since the system is being torn apart we want to get away from R-22. The glide is the my major concern on the R422b. The system does include oversized receivers and TXV's.
    Any suggestions on the SH setting we should shoot for considering the 10 deg. glide?

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    Technically yes HFCs need POE. I have on many units successfully ran 407C without an oil change by adding Poe to the system on top of the MO that was originally in the compressor. It has worked so far and I have old compressors on rooftops running fine with 100 foot suction risers.

  8. #47
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    Jul 2012
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    In my area R22 is almost 2x the price of 421A or MO-99

  9. #48
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    May 2019
    Location
    Trinity Florida
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    BTW,
    Part of the updated refrigeration circuit will include isolation valves on compressor inlet and discharge.
    I would like to attach a diagram of the refrigeration circuit (.pdf) but can't figure it out.

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Clearwater, Florida
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    Just seems odd to me that the manufacturer of the compressor and the retrofit refrigerant are saying it has to be changed yet it's "totally fine" to mix them.

    I get what you are saying and that it works fine, just seems odd to me.

  11. #50
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    Jul 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olivero View Post
    Just seems odd to me that the manufacturer of the compressor and the retrofit refrigerant are saying it has to be changed yet it's "totally fine" to mix them.

    I get what you are saying and that it works fine, just seems odd to me.
    The retrofit refrigerant industry is still relatively young. There's a lot of experimentation that has worked the manufacturers didn't or would not endorse.
    I have never lost a mineral oil compressor with a new drier, 200 micron evac, charge to correct superheat or subcool.
    Add some Poe to the system and it seems fine. That's not the way they say to do it but 407C works about the best with the least capacity loss.

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    kansas
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincompressor View Post
    The oils mix fine. No issues. That's a myth how it creates goop and clogs etc.
    MO, AB, POE and PVE all mix. I do refrigeration so we run into that on changeovers all the time.

    It’s the refrigerant that needs to be checked for compatibility r22 can run min. Ab. Poe or a mixture of all three ( all though not sure why anyone would have all three).99% of the crap they told us 20+ years ago was half truths at best. If you look at mo99 they recommend adding Poe for oil return in some cases.
    Honeywell you can buy better but you cant pay more

    I told my wife when i die to sell my fishing stuff for what its worth not what i told her i paid for it

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Oil return wouldn't be such a concern with comfort cooling having higher refrigerant velocities.
    It's the medium and especially low temperature applications where one might want to adhere to the manufacturers recommendations.

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