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  1. #27
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    Jul 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvpbnl View Post
    I'm doing a big job this month. It's a 10 ton Dectron (two 5 ton compressors) de-humidification unit. Though 20 years old the compressors are running great. It has great evaporator and reheat coils. The r-22 is the biggest negative. We're pulling the compressors and dumping the mineral oil replaced with POE. We've decided on R-422b (the nu-22). I'll let you know how it goes.
    NU22 works fine. I have it in medium temperature applications as well.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Gladstone, Oregon (Portland)
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    I dont believe in any drop-ins.

  3. #29
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    May 2019
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    Trinity Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adlerberts-Protege View Post
    I dont believe in any drop-ins.
    R-22 equipment will be around for many years. Some of these units are disposable, however some are less easily replaceable. The unit I'm working on is 20 years old. It has a dual path 8 row evaporator coil. It has a 6 row reheat coil and water heat exchanger within it. It also incorporates a 7 1/2 HP blower motor. The house was built around it. It provides dehumidification for an indoor pool. Right now you can get R-22. I'm not sure what that availability will be in five years. I'm hopping that R-422b will be here. If not, with the POE oil in it almost anything can go in it.

  4. #30
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    Dec 2009
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    maroon lazyboy
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    The KT-53-VC TEV element went from a green color to a blue color. Just saying.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Clearwater, Florida
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    There's lots of other refrigerants you can use but it depends how much work you want to put into it.

    Some R22 units use Mineral oil, some use POE. 407C uses POE and MO99 uses Mineral oil so if you want to go through with the whole oil flushing process then I would opt for 407C because it does have a slightly higher capacity. We could get into Mollier charts if you want?

    Other than that, it really just depends on how much work you want to do and what the customer is willing to pay for, there's a lot of options but strictly speaking in capacity 407C has the highest.

  6. #32
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    Jul 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adlerberts-Protege View Post
    I dont believe in any drop-ins.
    educate yourself

  7. #33
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    Jul 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olivero View Post
    There's lots of other refrigerants you can use but it depends how much work you want to put into it.

    Some R22 units use Mineral oil, some use POE. 407C uses POE and MO99 uses Mineral oil so if you want to go through with the whole oil flushing process then I would opt for 407C because it does have a slightly higher capacity. We could get into Mollier charts if you want?

    Other than that, it really just depends on how much work you want to do and what the customer is willing to pay for, there's a lot of options but strictly speaking in capacity 407C has the highest.
    Depends on the piping. Suction line velocity etc. I have many split systems running with MO and a few ounces of POE added and 407C. No dead compressors.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvpbnl View Post
    R-22 is a lot more now. In 20 years (wishful thinking), it wont be available at all.
    Unit be long gone by then...

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    VA
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    So, when those freshly converted residential systems develop a leak, losing a few lbs. or 1/4 of the charge from a loose Schrader core then what? Are you going to top it off with a mixture that has a 10° glide?
    From what I see lately, evaporator coils go before most compressors.
    Still don’t see the point in residential conversions. It’s a game the big chemical companies are playing.
    "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" Socrates

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Clearwater, Florida
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    Sure, there's lots of factors, but a refrigerant is a refrigerant, I doubt suction line velocity is a factor in selecting a replacement refrigerant I would imagine that since the piping worked out and was done correctly or at least to the point there was sufficient oil return, that another refrigerant would work as well. I've at least never heard of suction velocity as a determining factor.

    There is no such thing as drop in refrigerants, it's beat into your head during the EPA certifications. Mixing refrigerants is not allowed, so dropping MO99 onto R22 is not allowed.

    Glide is how the new blends are, just have to account for it.

  11. #37
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    Jul 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olivero View Post
    Sure, there's lots of factors, but a refrigerant is a refrigerant, I doubt suction line velocity is a factor in selecting a replacement refrigerant I would imagine that since the piping worked out and was done correctly or at least to the point there was sufficient oil return, that another refrigerant would work as well. I've at least never heard of suction velocity as a determining factor.

    There is no such thing as drop in refrigerants, it's beat into your head during the EPA certifications. Mixing refrigerants is not allowed, so dropping MO99 onto R22 is not allowed.

    Glide is how the new blends are, just have to account for it.
    MO = mineral oil

  12. #38
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    Oct 2016
    Location
    Clearwater, Florida
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    Oh, I see.

    I thought you were referring to MO99.

    Mixing oils is also bad practice is it not?

    "Mixing of Polyol Ester and Mineral Oil

    Published 05/19/2014 10:05 AM | Updated 05/19/2014 10:05 AM

    Can I mix Polyol Ester (POE) and Mineral Oil (MO) together?

    When using CFC or HCHC refrigerants, POE and MO can be mixed. The exception is R12 that only uses MO or Alkyl Benzene Mineral Oil (ABMO) blend. HFC refrigerants can only use POE oil."

    http://emersonclimate.custhelp.com/a...nd-mineral-oil

    But 407C is an HFC and it requires POE.

  13. #39
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    May 2019
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    Trinity Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olivero View Post
    Oh, I see.

    I thought you were referring to MO99.

    Mixing oils is also bad practice is it not?

    "Mixing of Polyol Ester and Mineral Oil

    Published 05/19/2014 10:05 AM | Updated 05/19/2014 10:05 AM

    Can I mix Polyol Ester (POE) and Mineral Oil (MO) together?

    When using CFC or HCHC refrigerants, POE and MO can be mixed. The exception is R12 that only uses MO or Alkyl Benzene Mineral Oil (ABMO) blend. HFC refrigerants can only use POE oil."

    http://emersonclimate.custhelp.com/a...nd-mineral-oil

    But 407C is an HFC and it requires POE.
    Yeah, mixing the two oils is not a good idea. The compressors name plate indicate they were charged with 70 oz. of mineral oil. We plan to remove the compressors and measure what we take out of the system. After a nitrogen blow out of the coils and heat exchangers, leak check and evacuation down to a least 250 microns we will then charge with POE based on name plate. The residual mineral trace oil should not be a issue. We will then charge the system with R-422b which can handle some MO.

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