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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Carrier iVu vs. ALC WebCtrl??

    ivu vs Webctrl? Could anybody explain the biggest differences? I realize they are both United Technologies, and i believe Carrier actually owned ALC at one point, but what are the biggest differences? I used to do ALC install and basic programming/graphics and am now working for a
    Carrier applied equipment rep, and we have considered starting to do controls installs on our basic HVAC jobs, (AHU's, VAV systems, basic chiller plants, etc.). What is the deal with the chiller-vu or fan coil opn controllers that Carrier offers? do these come configured from the factory with programs? Is there any difference in programming with ivu vs. webctrl? From what i have seen most of ALC's graphics look a little better, but are still extremely similar to Ivu's graphics. If anybody could also explain where Carrier's CCN controls would be beneficial over the more advanced ivu system that would be very helpful. Anybody know what model carrier controller you would use for a typical AHU install? I know ALC used the SE controllers, typically 16 inputs and 6 DO's, and 6 AO's. It has also looked to me like ivu requires a CIV-OPN for the network, this looks like a small black computer server. In my ALC experience, we would just connect the local host to the LGR (ALC's front end) and start to run the trunk from there. This all being said, how difficult would one think it would be for somebody who has plenty of knowledge of HVAC systems and years of controls install experience to program your typical HVAC applications? I know this was a lot but your feedback is much appreciated!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    MN
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    i-Vu is practically identical to WebCTRL from the user interface. The big differences are between WebCTRL and the i-Vu Standard and the i-Vu Plus; these 2 styles run on their own mini-computer that's preconfigured and doesn't have a GUI associated with it. The Pro version is installed and operated just like a WebCTRL system.
    The chillerview, fan coil application controllers, VVT zones/bypasses, VAVB1 and B3 controllers all come with factory installed programming that you configure in the properties page of the equipment. The Open UCP controllers are CCN = BACnet converters that bring in RTUs and Chillers to an i-Vu system. Also i-Vu will also talk CCN (or a combination of those 2 systems), so there's that option as well. The factory installed programs cannot be edited. Supposedly carrier is releasing a fully programmable VAV controller in the near future.
    The Open APP, UC, UCXP, MCP Open XP controllers are fully programmable via "SNAP" which is Carriers equivalent of Eikon. Graphic files are created or changed with Viewbuilder, basically the same as ALC's version.
    Even though SNAP and Viewbuilder function the exact same way, they are not compatible between WebCTRL and i-Vu. And there are a few other differences, the graphics that come with i-Vu are no where near the quality of ALC for the most part, and there are a few microblocks missing in SNAP as compared to Eikon.

    LGRs are known as Open Routers, or Open Links in the i-Vu world. Programs can be loaded onto the Links for 3rd party integration, the Routers do not hold programs. Carrier also released a new XT-RB router that does ACRnet and MS/TP, and the newer Links and Routers will do ARCnet too I believe. I think they're also releasing new drivers that will allow the Open controllers to run on ARCnet, but I haven't tried anything with them yet.
    If you want to talk more about it or have any questions, feel free to email me.

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  4. #3
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    Apr 2017
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    Thread Starter
    Thank you for your response, it was extremely helpful! I can't believe Carrier doesn't offer a fully programmable VAV controller, I know it's usually not necessary but i can remember a few occasions in my ALC days we would use a spare point on a vav controller to network the point to a controller elsewhere in the building (Not the best idea, I know). I mean just how configurable are Carriers VAV controllers? For example, just yesterday I was looking at a small VVT project with like 10 air terminal boxes, all with electric reheat coils. On a few of the larger boxes, the engineer was calling for 3 stages of heat, and while the OPN-VVTZC has 3 digital outputs, on the controller it claims 2 outputs are for heat and 1 for a fan command, could you configure the fan output as another heat command for the 3rd stage of heat the engineer wanted? If we were to actually get the job, we would also be supplying the VAV's so i would just order the 3 stage ones with 0-10V SCR control instead and do it that way, or just command two stages at once, but hypothetically could you do that with the D.O. that is labeled on the controller for a fan? What is your take on the chillerview controllers? Would you recommend them over an open controller for your somewhat basic chiller plants? Would you happen to know how many expanders you can have for one chillerview controller? I know in my ALC days we would use ARCnet 100% of the time, any benefit to that other than the faster speed? Again, thank you for your feedback! It was very helpful and much appreciated.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Hardin, TX
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    A couple of different answers.
    1) The VAV and VVT controllers aren't fully programmable because of the Linkage microblocks where each controller can talk to its neighbors and the master and, even when I worked for Carrier, I couldn't get my hands on the code for it.
    2) The price difference between VAV and VVT Open controllers is not that great, and the VAV controller can use all 3 outputs for heat the way it comes from the factory.
    3) If you're providing the boxes as well, you can get them prewired from Carrier with the SCR controls for the heater stages.
    4) The chiller-vu controllers are really meant for BIG chiller plants, think 3-8 300+ ton water cooled chillers. For one or two chiller systems, depending on if you have Carrier or non-Carrier chillers, either an Open-APP or Open-UCXP controller is plenty. I have run up to three chiller plants with just a UCXP and point expander.

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