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  1. #14
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    No, you'd know it was too much after it slugged enough liquid to break something and then needs the compressor to be replaced.
    I havent failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison

    Its not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get up. - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

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  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider77 View Post
    No, you'd know it was too much after it slugged enough liquid to break something and then needs the compressor to be replaced.
    Damn... why wouldn't the documentation specify some numbers regarding the safe operating temp ranges. If a person was designing a very well insulated building that needed to be 50 degrees inside, how would they determine that a particular unit couldn't safely achieve that temperature?

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gernby View Post
    Damn... why wouldn't the documentation specify some numbers regarding the safe operating temp ranges. If a person was designing a very well insulated building that needed to be 50 degrees inside, how would they determine that a particular unit couldn't safely achieve that temperature?
    the documentation DOES. plus, the equipment is selected by a qualified person. there isnt just one kind of equipment

  4. #17
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    You do realize that in order to do this, your going to need a LOT of water. And cooling water is going to result in the house heating up. And that will result in the unit using more energy as it's not only conditioning the house, and not only conditioning the water, but also will cause the unit to run for longer periods trying to cool the house.
    I havent failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison

    Its not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get up. - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC_Marc View Post
    the documentation DOES. plus, the equipment is selected by a qualified person. there isnt just one kind of equipment
    Glad to hear that. Would you mind telling me what that specification would be called in the documentation? I've been studying the specification sheets from Goodman for days, and haven't found anything that would indicate a minimum safe thermostat setting. My Ecobee will allow me to set the cooling set point down as low as -10F.

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gernby View Post
    Glad to hear that. Would you mind telling me what that specification would be called in the documentation? I've been studying the specification sheets from Goodman for days, and haven't found anything that would indicate a minimum safe thermostat setting. My Ecobee will allow me to set the cooling set point down as low as -10F.

    It would be found in the condenser/compressor specifications. And believe me, a Goodman condenser wont take this kind of abuse.

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider77 View Post
    You do realize that in order to do this, your going to need a LOT of water. And cooling water is going to result in the house heating up. And that will result in the unit using more energy as it's not only conditioning the house, and not only conditioning the water, but also will cause the unit to run for longer periods trying to cool the house.
    I realize that the amount of water necessary to achieve benefit might make it impractical, but that will depend on the achievable temperature of the water. I'm going to start with ~200 gallons of water stored in containers in the middle of my house. Unless I do something very wrong, there shouldn't be a significant increase in total load on the air conditioning system, since the total BTU's per day won't change. Assuming the system stays within it's safe operating parameters, the effect on the system should be fewer run cycles per day, but each run cycle being longer. If successful, the total run time per day will be lower.

  8. #21
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    I was thinking a minimum of 1,000 gallons stored in insulated tanks at a temperature of 30-40 degrees
    I havent failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison

    Its not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get up. - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider77 View Post
    I was thinking a minimum of 1,000 gallons stored in insulated tanks at a temperature of 30-40 degrees
    Well, it wouldn't need to be that much to provide benefit. The "low hanging fruit" would be to capture enough cold water to cool the house during on-peak electric pricing (for me that is 3PM-8PM). If the chilled water wasn't quite enough to cool through the whole peak pricing period, then it could reduce the amount of cooling needed by the AC.

    If I'm only able to chill the water down to the temperature my unit is already achieving (50F), and I want to keep my house at or below 74F, then 200 gallons of water would theoretically hold 40,000 BTU's worth of cooling potential (200 * 8.33 * 24). I would not need to insulate the containers, since they will be located inside the air conditioned space. The heat transfer between the water containers and surrounding air won't really be a loss.

  10. #23
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    But the water would be steadily increasing in temperature, even if you could cool it to 50*
    I havent failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison

    Its not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get up. - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rider77 View Post
    But the water would be steadily increasing in temperature, even if you could cool it to 50*
    That's the goal! The water temperature will rise as it cools my house.

  12. #25
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    But as the temperature rises cooling capacity will be greatly reduced.
    I honestly think your going to murder your unit attempting this. You need a chiller.
    I havent failed. Ive just found 10,000 ways that wont work. - Thomas Edison

    Its not whether you get knocked down, its whether you get up. - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

    Local 486

  13. #26
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    Well, this project started about a year ago, and has been extremely beneficial so far. My highest electric bills in 2014 and 2015 were in August, one of them being over $400 for more than 4000 KWH of usage. However, my bill for August 2016 was $200 with slightly more than 2000 KWH. The trend continued ever since. I did this by using the contents of my house as a thermal capacitor, in order to optimize the cycles of my AC units.

    Prior to last year, my thermostats were set to maintain 73F all the time. During most of the year, they would each run ~20 times per day for 5-7 minutes. However, by changing my cooling strategy so that I cool the house much colder over the night and morning hours (down to 68F), then STOP cooling at 3PM, the house is able to stay cool enough until 8PM without the AC's coming on at all. It will usually stay below 74F by the time electric cost drops at 8PM.

    I think many people would say that doing this would increase stress on the AC units, but I don't think it has. Instead of running 20 times for 5-10 minutes, they run around 10 times for 10-15 minutes. I would think that probably reduces wear on the units.

    My goal with the water containers is to improve the process a bit further, by chilling water instead of over-cooling my house. Unless I make a mistake, the total load on the system should be reduced by some amount.

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