Utility Sink Drain Pipe Leak

[HVAC_Marc]

On this quest I found 20$ in the parking lot. But then I fell out of the truck and gouged my hand and arm.



A grease trap and a washtub fell on top of me. Wtf.

(products courtesy of Wolverine Brass)

Sent via ESP...

[HVAC_Marc]

I thought, "yeah im gonna have to send PHM his half of this cash" then i fell on my arse and got buried with a 65 lb grease trap and the other sh1t. then it went to "F it!, he just paid for my bandages!"

[Poodle Head Mikey]

Sir,

It is my position that, in the second pic from the top - the non-U piece is attached incorrectly. With it's ends switched.

Here; I'll try to just include that one pic - wish me luck.

PHM
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...

[madhat]

If someone can tell me how to post a picture in the message, I'll take a picture under my sink and post it.

[HVAC_Marc]

well, you can think what you want, but it's not a violation of the code in my area (IPC, and NYS). Plus, the fitting allows for usage in that manner.

Now, do I suggest that the fitting be used in this manner? NO. A deep trap is usually more of a problem than it solves. (there are certain situations that a deep trap resolves). Also, the swing part of the pipe reversed like this allows for a much shorter ell. Ive used it like that when there is not enough space or length required for a more standard installation.

the molded piece is basically nothing more than the separate ferrule "glued" in place. It will mate adequately to any other fitting designed for use with compression ferrules and nuts.

It's not that it's incorrect, it's just non-conventional.

The OP's install is wrong.

[Poodle Head Mikey]

Well; you know that now I just Have to try it. <g>

PHM
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well, you can think what you want, but it's not a violation of the code in my area (IPC, and NYS). Plus, the fitting allows for usage in that manner.

Now, do I suggest that the fitting be used in this manner? NO. A deep trap is usually more of a problem than it solves. (there are certain situations that a deep trap resolves). Also, the swing part of the pipe reversed like this allows for a much shorter ell. Ive used it like that when there is not enough space or length required for a more standard installation.

the molded piece is basically nothing more than the separate ferrule "glued" in place. It will mate adequately to any other fitting designed for use with compression ferrules and nuts.

It's not that it's incorrect, it's just non-conventional.

The OP's install is wrong.

[madhat]

I put the picture in my album.

[Answer-Man]

Just happen to have an international plumbing code book handy. 1002.4 Trap Seals: Each trap shall have a liquid seal not less than than 2 inched and no more than 4 inches. Pretty sure the uniform code book say something very simialr The trap is assembled incorrectly. Yes deep traps can be used in special situation but this is not a special situation. Cut the tail piece, flip the horizontal arm around and trim the end off will take a whole 5 minutes to fix

[HVAC_Marc]

Yes deep traps can be used in special situation but this is not a special situation.

This was determined, how?

[rcstl]

Sir,

It is my position that, in the second pic from the top - the non-U piece is attached incorrectly. With it's ends switched.

Here; I'll try to just include that one pic - wish me luck.

PHM
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PHM, you are right, that sh!t is just bass-ackwards. The coned end is meant to be crushed by the nut and the threaded end is meant to have a coned gasket.

[HVAC_Marc]

PHM, you are right, that sh!t is just bass-ackwards. The coned end is meant to be crushed by the nut and the threaded end is meant to have a coned gasket.

there is little difference between the fixed coned end and the movable gasket end. both get squeezed by the compression nut, hence the term compression joint. the difference in the sealing surface is ONLY that one is molded and one is a separate piece.

[Answer-Man]

Look I'm not arguing that a deep trap can't be used in special situations. The OP stated he's not a plumber and is very inexperienced in doing this type of work. You even said yourself deep traps cause more problems.... The OP assembled it wrong.

As to your question:
As deisgned and provided for in the manufactures installation recommendations for the appliance. Manufacturer directions are the only thing that allows me to deviate from the printed code. In my area when the inspection is done the inspector will make a note in the property file record for future reference. I'll accept I'm wrong but based on code documentation or manufactures instruction. If you can provide either please do, then we will all learn something new.

Good luck time to go home

[HVAC_Marc]

Look I'm not arguing that a deep trap can't be used in special situations. The OP stated he's not a plumber and is very inexperienced in doing this type of work. You even said yourself deep traps cause more problems.... The OP assembled it wrong.

As to your question:
As deisgned and provided for in the manufactures installation recommendations for the appliance. Manufacturer directions are the only thing that allows me to deviate from the printed code. In my area when the inspection is done the inspector will make a note in the property file record for future reference. I'll accept I'm wrong but based on code documentation or manufactures instruction. If you can provide either please do, then we will all learn something new.

Good luck time to go home

I was just curious how we determined that it wasnt a special situation. I think the other specific forums (plumbing, electrical) should be regulated like AOP because, like this situation, it's DIY and codes differ everywhere.

Deep traps tend to leak. Mainly because the compression nuts are rarely tight enough.

The OP's biggest issue was not cutting down the basket connector, which dropped the trap too far, and the angle was wrong.

We are all trying to help (and in my case, pointing out some other views). I have no issue with you.

[Poodle Head Mikey]

Well . . . . the end with the 90º bend in it is a union-nut joint - and the other end is a slip-nut joint. That is at least a Little difference. <g>

PHM
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there is little difference between the fixed coned end and the movable gasket end. both get squeezed by the compression nut, hence the term compression joint. the difference in the sealing surface is ONLY that one is molded and one is a separate piece.

[HVAC_Marc]

Well . . . . the end with the 90º bend in it is a union-nut joint - and the other end is a slip-nut joint. That is at least a Little difference. <g>

PHM
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like i said, one is fixed, the other is not. the joint has the same angle of seal, same connection type, same function.

[rcstl]

like i said, one is fixed, the other is not. the joint has the same angle of seal, same connection type, same function.

Different materials, different compressibility. It will generally be user error. I like the ones that are covered with silicone, or plumbers putty and still leak until they call me. haha. I think the prime reason here was the bad angle.

[HVAC_Marc]

Different materials, different compressibility. It will generally be user error. I like the ones that are covered with silicone, or plumbers putty and still leak until they call me. haha. I think the prime reason here was the bad angle.

the worst is flex seal or home depot epoxy. i had to deal with epoxy the other day. on a water line. i had to chisel the epoxy off, then it took literally 15 seconds to braze over the split.

[madhat]

"he worst is flex seal or home depot epoxy. i had to deal with epoxy the other day. on a water line. i had to chisel the epoxy off,"

Geez, what an idiot, everyone knows you're supposed to use JB Weld.

[Answer-Man]

HVAC-Marc no offense taken and none ment.

You are 100% correct while the International and Uniform codes what in the books are the same everywhere, but they are interpeted and enforced differently throughout the whole contry. Just as an example these plastic drain pieces we are talking about. In my home area are illegal for me as a licensed Plumbing Contractor to install any of those parts. I must use Bronze, Bronze with chrome plating or I can use schedule 40 PVC and it must be glued joints. I am allowed only 3 slip joint for any trap. That's just the way this city has decided to enforce the code, next city over could care less

We make decisions and determination on what we believe something is based on the pictures and what is written in every post. I can write something and think I have made absolutely crytal clear. Then you get a response totaly from left field, like where in the heck did you get that idea from. As for this application I see a copper drain stub with a standard laundry drain and a clothes washer next to it. looks like a thousand other laundry tubs I've seen in a residential application

[HVAC_Marc]

About the type of joints regarding fixture traps:

From the IPC:

Fixture traps.

Each plumbing fixture shall be separately trapped by a liquid-seal trap, except as otherwise permitted by this code. The vertical distance from the fixture outlet to the trap weir shall not exceed 24 inches (610 mm), and the horizontal distance shall not exceed 30 inches (610 mm) measured from the centerline of the fixture outlet to the centerline of the inlet of the trap.

Design of traps.

Fixture traps shall be self-scouring. Fixture traps shall not have interior partitions, except where such traps are integral with the fixture or where such traps are constructed of an approved material that is resistant to corrosion and degradation. Slip joints shall be made with an approved elastomeric gasket and shall be installed only on the trap inlet, trap outlet and within the trap seal.

Trap seals.

Each fixture trap shall have a liquid seal of not less than 2 inches (51 mm) and not more than 4 inches (102
mm), or deeper for special designs relating to accessible fixtures.

There was another one I cant reference quickly (it may have been in my NYS code book) where it said compression type fittings are prohibited after a trap. This rule would make all multi-piece p-trap assemblies illegal, yet the inspectors want them installed.