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  1. #1
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    Metasys to Niagara Integration: Multistack Chiller Problem

    Hi all, I apologize for the long post in advance, I am not a controls technician and only know enough to be dangerous so I'm giving you as much information as possible.

    I'm doing a Tridium overlay on an existing JCI Metasys system (I think it's version 8.1). The site has around 20 NAEs with hundreds of MSTP devices underneath. The Multistack chiller in question is communicating via MSTP.

    This overlay is strictly for data collection.

    I did a bacnet/IP discovery and added two of the NAEs, then did a bacnet point discovery and added around 1000 points per NAE to the JACE. I then added histories to those proxy points.

    When I enable the points, the Multistack chiller goes offline and will not accept an enable command from Metasys. Unplug the JACE and it works again.

    We eliminated all of the duplicate bacnet IDs in the NAEs (at least 10 were still set to 500) and there doesn't seem to be any issues with any of the other MSTP devices. We get no errors in Metasys or the JACE that I can see.

    Tuning policy is set to default (1s fast, 5s medium, 30s slow). I should probably set that to every minute or even more since we are logging at 15 minute intervals.

    Does anyone have any ideas as to what the issue might be or steps I can take to troubleshoot?
    What other information can I provide that would help in troubleshooting?

    Thank you for the help.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Southern California
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    Additional things to check into:
    Any duplicate time broadcasters, duplicate BACnet network numbers
    MSTP buss MAC addressing issues
    EIA485 (MSTP electronics setups) comm buss configurations issues such as max master settings, token passing timing configurations

    Which BACnet explorer software are you using?

    Post a screen capture of you BACnet system points discovery and any
    Wireshark network grabs (especially if you have your BACnet Wireshark filters setup)

    Do you have the Carel control version of multistacks, and if so,do you
    have the Carel software tool set so you can see what the chiller is seeing on the buss?
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit" Aristotle

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  3. #3
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    Apr 2017
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    Thread Starter
    Thanks Dracula, it is a Carel controller but I don't have the software tool.

    Please excuse my ignorance; by BACnet explorer are you referring to Vykon Workbench or something more along the lines of an actual BACnet debugger? Because I'm not using any of those I really am lacking in my bacnet networking knowledge.

    I will have to check the other things next time I'm on site. I have no remote access to the customers site.

    Thank you for your help

  4. #4
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    Feb 2009
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    My guess is duplicate Device IDs. BACnet can not have any duplicate device Id on any trunk. MSEA (JCI NAE and ADS) does not use device IDs so duplicates do not cause a problem until a BACnet compliant device is trying to communicate. The JCI training directs techs to set unique device IDs but it is common to find JCI sites with the IDs all messed up.

    I have opinions of this JCI practice but I'll bite my tongue.

  5. #5
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    Apr 2017
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    Thread Starter
    Bill, thank you I will add that to my list of things to check. Would I need to check every device on every trunk or would this issue be isolated to the trunk on which the MultiStack resides?

  6. #6
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    May 2006
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    MultiStack

    Quote Originally Posted by jmt482 View Post
    Bill, thank you I will add that to my list of things to check. Would I need to check every device on every trunk or would this issue be isolated to the trunk on which the MultiStack resides?

    I would only bring in the NAE which the Multistack in on. Does it go offline?

    If it still goes offline, they you need to verify that the NAE Router is set to OFF. If it's on, then what ever is on the MSTP is transmitter everywhere.

  7. #7
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by integrator View Post
    I would only bring in the NAE which the Multistack in on. Does it go offline?

    If it still goes offline, they you need to verify that the NAE Router is set to OFF. If it's on, then what ever is on the MSTP is transmitter everywhere.
    Only the NAE with the Multistack is pulled into the JACE.

    Is there a way to quickly check the Device IDs of all MSTP devices in ADS/X?

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    NAE

    Quote Originally Posted by jmt482 View Post
    Only the NAE with the Multistack is pulled into the JACE.

    Is there a way to quickly check the Device IDs of all MSTP devices in ADS/X?

    You can only do it from the NAE

    - view the NAE, then the MSTP bus.
    - You'll see a Engineering tab.
    - This will scan the bus and tell you all the devices on the MSTP trunk.
    -** Do this couple times. If you have a conflict, sometimes the device will appear and on the next scan won't be there.
    - Then look at the Diagnostic tab and you'll have a Duplicate Device Identifiers - 0 is what you want.
    - For another check - right click the mouse when the MSTP trunk is highlighted -> click Command -> then Analyze Field Bus..
    - Click back to the Diagnostic tab and "Bus Analysis Progress" should be started.
    - Wait for this to complete and take a picture of the screen for troubleshooting.

    - Also to check, from the MSTP bus view the Focus tab with the Advanced button clicked.
    - Look for "Discover All As General BACnet Device" - is this False.

    -** Then view the NAE -> network tab.
    - Look at the bottom for "Routing Mode" -> is this disabled?

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