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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    For the record, it is not me who is out on a limb. If you refuse to recognize how things are done, and how they can help you to do a good job...well, some people cannot be helped.
    My point was, and is that color coding is somewhat excepted as a standard and yet even that differs depending on country. But there is no NEC or UL requirement beyond those outlined, and to infer otherwise is misleading.

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfdog View Post
    My point was, and is that color coding is somewhat excepted as a standard and yet even that differs depending on country. But there is no NEC or UL requirement beyond those outlined, and to infer otherwise is misleading.
    I don't believe anyone here has inferred or implied that there is a NEC or UL standard involved. Those are legal requirements, rather than industry expectations for a workmanlike execution of construction. Respecting accepted conventions is a matter of common sense, and those conventions exist for good reason.

    Here is a good article by an industry respected expert on the NEC requirements where marking is a requirement.

    http://ecmweb.com/qampa/code-qa-iden...uit-conductors
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  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTP99 View Post
    In TB's defense, I always see green as ground.
    No defense needed. I am just the messenger.

    The NEC does require that grounding conductors be identified, and groundED conductors, as well. See the link above.
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  4. #30
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    It does irritate me when some bozo uses black and white for 220volt.
    Talk about surprising the young and unknowing.

  5. #31
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    Here is a page that explains the expected conventions for three phase wiring...

    https://www.municode.com/library/tx/....3.7COCOCUSECO
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  6. #32
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    Interesting. I have NEVER seen a wild leg identified as such, and there are a lot of wild legs around my parts.

    Probably the only thing they do around here is identify the difference between 208/230 and 460. But even that is sketchy, seen a LOT of 460 identified with red/blue/black.

    Used to know the difference between the color coding for 208 and 230 because there was this one account we did a lot of work for that required it, but it's been awhile and can't remember anymore.


    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    You already know this I'm sure, but...

    The Code is a standard for elimination of hazards. It is not a best practice or currently acceptable work reference.

    The colors used by the HVAC and Electrical industries therefore are not specified in the Code. In article 440, you will not find a standard of green wire for a fan call, nor will you find different colors for 208 or 480 volt markings.

    You WILL, however, find an orange marking for the high leg of a delta system, because its voltage to ground can and does present a hazard to operators and equipment if it is not identified.

    For the record, it is not me who is out on a limb. If you refuse to recognize how things are done, and how they can help you to do a good job...well, some people cannot be helped.

  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTP99 View Post
    It does irritate me when some bozo uses black and white for 220volt.
    Talk about surprising the young a n d unknowing.
    When a white conductor is used as an ungrounded conductor, it must be so marked.
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  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBeerme View Post
    Interesting. I have NEVER seen a wild leg identified as such, and there are a lot of wild legs around my parts.

    Probably the only thing they do around here is identify the difference between 208/230 and 460. But even that is sketchy, seen a LOT of 460 identified with red/blue/black.

    Used to know the difference between the color coding for 208 and 230 because there was this one account we did a lot of work for that required it, but it's been awhile and can't remember anymore.
    The most likely explanation is that these requirements in the Code have taken place of a long period of time. When I took my first electrical exam in 1973, it was one page long and there was almost no electrical code at all.

    So, many deltas were installed before there was a code requirement for marking.
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  9. #35
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    Heh heh, yeah, knowing how to use a meter, and actually using the meter, are important aspects of our trade.

    Whenever I see romex in an HVAC application, I know to expect any voltage. Just last week, white and black [inside the romex] was being used for 240.


    Quote Originally Posted by VTP99 View Post
    It does irritate me when some bozo uses black and white for 220volt.
    Talk about surprising the young and unknowing.

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dandyme View Post
    what if ALL the conductors are the same color, just numbers to identify.....................
    Worked on one like this, i can't remember what manufacturer it was..big two stage package unit used to cool a church. All the wire colors were white with little tags with the numbers corresponding to the wiring diagram....it was old enough sitting in the sun none of the little tags were legible...what a PITA.
    I wish I had a $1.00 for every response I deleted.....

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  11. #37
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    To the original poster of this thread, initially, there's only a couple of things I can tell you. With a follow up third possible benefit.

    The first two things are that understanding and troubleshooting electrical seems to be the most difficult aspect for those new to the trade. So keep that in mind, and let that be a driving force to keep you trying to wrap your head around it. The better you get at the electrical end of things, will result in more money in your pocket. Or, at a minimum, more stable employment.

    Secondly, hands on tinkering and playing with a meter is essential to figuring it out. So get a meter if you don't already have one, and start playing around.

    Now here's the third thing that may or may not result in an unexpected benefit . . . Once you have a meter, what are you going to use it on? How about looking up some local contractors? Then visit them. Tell them you are a student. And need some old used parts to practice on. An old transformer that still works but cannot be resold. A few old relays stripped from old equipment before disposal. Tell them you'll be happy to strip the components yourself.

    A few constant contacts with these contractors will hopefully do two things. First, it will make you more comfortable being around them. And you never know, maybe one of them will see your motivation and hire you.



    Quote Originally Posted by jaredcrerie View Post
    I've been in school learning hvac for about 6 months. Everything seems to come easily to me but this..

    For example we get handed a worksheet with a compressor, condenser fan motor, potential relay, capacitor, contactors, transformers, t stat etc

    When the teacher go over it i kinda get it, I know what each component does and what it goes to for the most part. But i go blank as to how to connect everything. For some reason i just dont see it at all. Same thing happens with hands on wiring

    Ive been looking all over online for a way to understand how to do it but cant find anything. I dig into my electrical book try to connect it myself, but even when somebody walks me through it i still dont understand why things are hooked up like they are. Any advice for resources or a way to look at it so i understand?

    thank you

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  13. #38
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    Back to the OP's dilemma. Start slow. Draw a circuit to power a light bulb. Understand what is going on in that circuit. If you have the parts wire it and see if it works. Once you have that down add a switch to turn the light on and off then study it till you understand. Keep adding more components, complexity, and study. The more you can practice with actual parts and wires the better but if nothing else use a battery, switches and light bulbs if needed.

    When I went through school in the dark ages we had wiring boards where you would create circuits with wires with banana clips and sockets to add switches, lights, relays, etc. run off a battery for safety. If you screwed something up you didn't blow a fuse or electrocute a classmate. It started simple and kept getting more complex. Additive repetition is a great teacher.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    When a white conductor is used as an ungrounded conductor, it must be so marked.
    So this guy was thinking the opposite
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