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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBurn View Post
    $20 seems high unless it's tempered glass. Thought you could get the material and cut it yourself for pennies.
    Its just plastic, nothing special. Couldn't seem to find it separately on ebay though. Guessing its just like the case, about 1/3rd the cost there. I didn't want mess around cutting one for a twenty spot. I'm sure if you message the ebay seller, they will get you one at a reasonable cost. Will likely end up going that route next time as being plastic, its going to need to be swapped out regularly.

    Amazon screen protector is shipping slow boat from CN. I had hoped there was local stock at least for $20. Live and learn...
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  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by orion242 View Post
    I'm sure if you message the ebay seller, they will get you one at a reasonable cost.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/183727403656

    2 pak vs single on Amazon.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBurn View Post
    Have a link to that device?

    Broudy had a webinar about the JCI Field Inspection Tool (FIT) device. No wave forms but all the voltages and suggested courses of action in the manual about certain errors. Looked a little low end and dumbed down.

    Good day Maxburn,

    I wonder when JCI came out with this? I ask, as we embedded this functionality into our S2USB485 device since 2008.

    Effectively we embedded a voltmeter, etc into the device and then provided free software (S2USB485DiagN2 ... https://www.s2innovations.com/s2usb485diagn2) so our S2USB485 device could perform some basic N2 bus electrical tests. If any issues were found, remedies were suggested. We were going to expand the diagnostic software's capabilities (S2N2Scan), but there was not much interest.

    Cheers,

    Sam
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  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by s2sam View Post
    Good day Maxburn,

    I wonder when JCI came out with this? I ask, as we embedded this functionality into our S2USB485 device since 2008.

    Effectively we embedded a voltmeter, etc into the device and then provided free software (S2USB485DiagN2 ... https://www.s2innovations.com/s2usb485diagn2) so our S2USB485 device could perform some basic N2 bus electrical tests. If any issues were found, remedies were suggested. We were going to expand the diagnostic software's capabilities (S2N2Scan), but there was not much interest.

    Cheers,

    Sam
    The new ones were released about a year ago. They are just for MSTP. They show voltages, help with duplicate addresses, lost tokens, and a few other things.

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by s2sam View Post
    We were going to expand the diagnostic software's capabilities (S2N2Scan), but there was not much interest.
    Would it have worked on MS/TP? Likely would have been more interest there.

    I'm thinking there are techs that have gotten used to looking at a scope and feel more comfortable using that, and some experience with it can get more detailed diagnosis with it. Things like detecting random noise every once in a while.

    Myself personally I just embrace the rules and a regular meter. When I encounter problems I look for rule violations (wrong wire type, termination, not daisy chain etc), modules with black spots, continuity to ground or the other wire where there shouldn't be and other things like that. Once those things are solved it "just works".
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  6. #32
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    I like the idea of a simple handheld tool like the FIT for installers. Could see the reports being a time saver, especially when using subs for install or techs that aren't up to the scope/capture & decode level.

    The minimalist 2x8 LCD and the fact it doesn't pull 3rd party device names, firmware, etc in the reports is a bit of a miss IMO. Guess if your in a 100% blue world... These days we rarely see 100% anything on a MS/TP trunk.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCIman View Post
    The new ones were released about a year ago. They are just for MSTP. They show voltages, help with duplicate addresses, lost tokens, and a few other things.
    Good day JCIMan,

    Excellent, thank you for the info!

    Cheers,

    Sam

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBurn View Post
    Would it have worked on MS/TP? Likely would have been more interest there. <snip>

    Good day Maxburn,

    Agreed. Thus we decided to hold off on the release of the device in order to include MS/TP functionality testing. During this time we monitored the interest and even for MS/TP it was limited. The other factor was what would we charge for the software? We were planning on the software being less than $200 or so, but were concerned about the support efforts/costs. I say this, as there are some users that lack a solid understanding of N2 or MS/TP and as a result calls from them would escalate the support efforts dramatically. Given the relatively low price for such specialty software, we decided to simply use our software internally and also provided it to some of our larger customer/partners. Although the software is a bit dated, we and our partners still actively use it for testing and troubleshooting on sites with N2 issues. The software measures response times, etc but also acts as a mini supervisory controller. So... if one is getting some weird data from a particular point or field controller, we use our software and actually interrogate the field controller directly to verify that the field controller is working and that the data being sent is what is expected. Overall it is pretty slick.

    Going forward we currently are working on a test tool that is pretty interesting. This tool is being developed for a particular project, but I am ensuring that the device's capability is sufficiently broad enough to support testing (software and hardware) and analysis of BACnet, N2, Modbus, etc. I cannot go into any real details, as the device is still in its early design stages. Hopefully by the end of Summer/early Fall I will have more info.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxBurn View Post
    <snip>

    I'm thinking there are techs that have gotten used to looking at a scope and feel more comfortable using that, and some experience with it can get more detailed diagnosis with it. Things like detecting random noise every once in a while.

    Myself personally I just embrace the rules and a regular meter. When I encounter problems I look for rule violations (wrong wire type, termination, not daisy chain etc), modules with black spots, continuity to ground or the other wire where there shouldn't be and other things like that. Once those things are solved it "just works".
    Also, I agree. There is nothing better than having the appropriate test gear. The problem is that sometimes we need several devices to fully test a particularly cranky bus... Meter, Oscilloscope, Laptop with protocol analysis software (Wireshark, etc), and even a TDR. Juggling all of these to/from a site, etc is a bit of a challenge and it seems that the one test device that we did not bring to site is the one that you need. The other factor is experience and/or knowledge of how to use the test instrument appropriately. The test device I mentioned earlier tries to address these issues... well that is the goal. Now whether or not we are able to achieve this goal will remain to be seen.


    Cheers,

    Sam

  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by s2sam View Post
    Juggling all of these to/from a site, etc is a bit of a challenge and it seems that the one test device that we did not bring to site is the one that you need.

    Bah, just need the right solution to efficiently carry everything with you.

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    Last edited by orion242; 05-09-2019 at 03:17 PM.
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  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by orion242 View Post
    Bah, just need the right solution to efficiently carry everything with you.
    Yup... that is about typical for me, but even so I probably have forgotten something. I wonder if I could load up a junior tech and make them into a pack mule of a sort ...

    Cheers,

    Sam

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