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  1. #14
    Join Date
    May 2004
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    Salt Lake City/Tooele
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    They have had the explanation of needed repairs. It was rejected.
    You and I know that our customers fully trust us and that when we give them options, they full-heartedly know that we have done everything in our power and if they choose to stay cheap, then so be it, re-cycle power all you like....LOL

    Just referencing the OP. It is obvious by the fact that he swapped a board, that he is not up to snuff on this near decade old problem. And best to give him the tools to learn and gain some insight on the unique characteristics of these Simplicity operated units. With this info, a bit of bucket setting on location, and a few curse words, he will now be able to isolate the issue and hopefully rectify it. If this is one of those 1 in 50 units that will just throw a 9 code every so often and it can never be buttoned down and just turns into a monthly return call, then I am with ya....cycle the power. But sounds like he has the luxury of actually seeing the 9 code manifest itself while on-site...VERY LUCKY! With that, and with a bit of reading, he should beable to track the issue down.

  2. Likes shavedneon, rundawg liked this post.
  3. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Southeastern Pa
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    I agree. He may be able to get it to work reliably just with the contactors. On my first one, the tech in Norman had me check for resistance to ground in the safeties. They all were replaced.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
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  4. #16
    Join Date
    May 2004
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    Salt Lake City/Tooele
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    FYI..off the subject. I shot an email to my contact in the inner Lennox skunk works and also a message on the DaveNet Lennox community tech board to get the specific PWM/VDC output from an IMC to the ECM fan motor for both single and two stage units. If you figure it out let me know, at the same time I will let you know what I learn.

  5. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    up in the hizzy
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    3,447
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    I heard there is a retrofit kit to replace the Simplicity 1A with the SE, have anyone use it yet?
    There is not better place for the working men than the union! 100% UA the only HVAC union!

  6. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hanover, PA
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    317
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by slctech View Post
    Go to this thread in the Pro Forum:

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1741531

    I wrote a troubleshooting manual just on this issue. Download it, it is long but read, but study it in conjunction with the factory wiring guide and you will be quite comfortable with returning and killing the gremlin.


    There is a very high probability that your compressor contactor(s) coil(s) are either failing essentially generating a voltage drop across them. This voltage drop is sensed by the internal circuitry of the board via the LIMIT terminal input and causes the unit to lock-out on a 9 code. There are other causes for the 9 flash during a cooling call, all of which I tried to outline in the troubleshooting guide I put together.

    We can all speculate on what may be causing it, but as you will read, it can be a multitude of things and a bit of knowledge and understanding of what causes this 9 flash will help you resolve your unique issue.

    SLCTECH

    Thanks, That's awesome!
    "Delay is preferable to error"- Thomas Jefferson

  7. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hanover, PA
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    317
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    Thread Starter
    Thanks!
    "Delay is preferable to error"- Thomas Jefferson

  8. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    San Antonio , TX
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    5
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    If 240 volt single phase . There were some issues on some units , a call for a/c and induced draft would run no a/c with a weird fault code and sometimes none at all , anyway if no open safety / check primary voltage at transformer to red load side of secondary if you have 94 to 98 volts its not what im thinking , but if you have around 140 volts then try switching 24V red load and com-ground around to board see if its that . That extra voltage is making processor think its rectifying when its not . Its happened to 120V and some 240V single pase.

  9. #21
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Salt Lake City/Tooele
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    Quote Originally Posted by MENACE View Post
    If 240 volt single phase . There were some issues on some units , a call for a/c and induced draft would run no a/c with a weird fault code and sometimes none at all , anyway if no open safety / check primary voltage at transformer to red load side of secondary if you have 94 to 98 volts its not what im thinking , but if you have around 140 volts then try switching 24V red load and com-ground around to board see if its that . That extra voltage is making processor think its rectifying when its not . Its happened to 120V and some 240V single pase.
    I do not know of any 120v operated RTU unit that utilizes this Simplicity 1A or ELITE board. I think the issue your talking about deals only on the residential furnace S1-331 series boards. There are occasions on certain generations of production of these boards that they will blink a 9 code stating reverse polarity.
    After verifying polarity and any low voltage issues and 9 blink was still persistent, it was learned to resolve this issue by reversing the transformer wiring.
    This issue was hit and miss, it either came up right on initial start-up after installing a new furnace or after replacing a board.
    That write up of mine can be found here if your a Pro Member:
    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread.php?1678021

  10. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hanover, PA
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    Thread Starter
    OK, now that I understand things clearer about the board operation, I found the problem was with the wire going to the limit switch in the blower compartment. The switch was closed, but the insulated female terminal was broken inside the insulation. I replaced the board anyway with the part number board mentioned previously. Everything went back to normal almost. On a call for cooling, after the time delay from turning the power on, Everything comes on except the supply air fan. The contactor pulls in then drops out. I plugged in a brand new contactor and with just the control voltage connected it did the same thing, I'm losing the voltage coming out of the board at the plug for all the contactors on that wire. I have 24v from the thermostat at the G terminal the whole time. Is there something that's telling the fan not to come on? Seems like these boards should come with a schematic of the board logic. What a pain, but I guess I won't forget how they work after this.
    "Delay is preferable to error"- Thomas Jefferson

  11. #23
    Join Date
    May 2004
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    Salt Lake City/Tooele
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    Is it just the blower contactor that drops out, or when the blower contactor is energized ALL contactors drop out?

    Is there a 13 code activated when this occurs?

  12. #24
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Toronto, CAN
    Posts
    144
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    I have fought with the sun line unit with the control boards for limit lockouts in summer. Just a bad limit but a service call none less. After replacing connectors, I happened a couple of weeks later. Ended up changing all the limits as one of them was bad. And it was cheaper to change them all instead of multiple calls on a one by one basis. Unit has ran fine for 3 years since.

    Any who, what a POS.! Who programed that logic. Why lock up a unit tighter than a nun for a heating error during an ac call. Left me scratching my head on the thought process behind it, or lack of. And with the newer boards have had firmware issues and econo issues. I don't recommend York rtu to customers, even if cheaper up front.

  13. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hanover, PA
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by slctech View Post
    Is it just the blower contactor that drops out, or when the blower contactor is energized ALL contactors drop out?

    Is there a 13 code activated when this occurs?

    Only the supply air fan contactor drops out, everything else is running. If I left it on long enough the coil would freeze. There are no errors during this time, just the heartbeat.
    Just seems funny that it pulls in the supply air fan contactor like it should and then it drops out, while all the other contactors remain energized. I know I'm not that smart, but I always thought barring some funky safety issue, if the signal goes into the board but doesn't leave the board, the board is the issue. However, since I just replaced the board, that doesn't make much sense.
    "Delay is preferable to error"- Thomas Jefferson

  14. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    15
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    Any chance I can get that manual SLCtech? Having same issue today


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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