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  1. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by QualityAssure View Post
    The Ramp Ups of Air are to Fast and the Ramp - Downs are to Slow ..


    No Enhancer on this System - was Suppose to be Already Smart . .

    Apparently No Senors for Humidity or Coil Temperature - 2 of the Most Important Items
    A Smart system would need ..

    Common Clothes Dryer's have Humidity Sensor - RPM - Variable , Heat Variable
    for at Least 15 - 20 Yrs.

    The ramp up is fine for systems that aren't over sized. You seem to want/think the system should have been built so people can grossly over size their systems. Sort of like having your cake and eating it too.

    Smart thermostats have the ability to sense humidity, and slow the blower down during times when the humidity is above set point. No reason to build in a second set of sensors.
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  2. #41
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    Jan 2015
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    East Tenn
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    The ramp up is fine for systems that aren't over sized. You seem to want/think the system should have been built so people can grossly over size their systems. Sort of like having your cake and eating it too.

    Smart thermostats have the ability to sense humidity, and slow the blower down during times when the humidity is above set point. No reason to build in a second set of sensors.
    1. It's Either Matched - Or - NOT . .

    2. Gauges Don't Lie

    3. Humidity Set Point must Off by a Lot .

    4. Taken from Tranes - Own PDF. they place to Public ( read ) Below

    5. 100% Variable is Variable - Air - Volume



    Address precise moisture-removal needs
    by applying these key principles:
    • Isolate and address problematic moisture
    sources, such as seepage and/or leakage.
    • With many traditional systems, cooling results
    in some dehumidification, but humidity could
    be better controlled with new components
    and/or design modifications.
    • Basic constant-volume (CV) systems alone
    may not provide adequate dehumidification.
    CV systems should be enhanced or
    variable-air-volume (VAV) systems should be
    used for proper dehumidification.

  3. #42
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    Jun 2006
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    No, you don't have a VAV system....... Ya got yourself an oversized 2 stage....
    I wish I had a $1.00 for every response I deleted.....

    "Decidedly Superior in a twisted pathetic way".....

  4. #43
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    Jan 2015
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    East Tenn
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by beshvac View Post
    No, you don't have a VAV system....... Ya got yourself an oversized 2 stage....
    LOL BRahaaa - Computerized Programmed Motor , Humidity Set Point Stat , and Warm Stage 1 with a
    Slightly Cool Stage 2 - Is Not Matched - Nor - Set Up Correctly . .


    See the Readings - as the other 9113 Customers - Don't Care about the SEER Numbers
    or the In Lab Testing .. The 100% Run all the Time - is - Pure What ?


  5. #44
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    Jul 2010
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    A properly sized AC unit dehumidifies well. If you need more dehumidification or more precise control, get a whole house dehumidifier. That's what they are made for. That's why they are there.

    If your contractor did a better job sizing the unit, you would likely be satisfied.

    I'd suggest you stop all this foolishness and call your contractor. Tell him your concerns and ask him to cut you a good deal on a dehumidifier. It could likely be done for about $2k. Then you could move onto other things like keeping those damn kids off the lawn.
    “Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.”
    -Possibly said by Thomas Jefferson(but true even if he didn't)


    “What one generation tolerates, the next generation will embrace.”
    ― Definitely said by John Wesley

  6. #45
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    Jan 2015
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    Thread Starter
    Able to Alter the Humidity Set Point from 50% to 40% - didn't seem to do much . . Possible in Learning Mode ?

    Did Notice this Last Month - Stage 1 Only able to Keep Humidity 1-2 % of what Stage 2 holds - ( Right during a Rain Storm )
    Stage 1 would be 58% and Stage 2 about 55% @ Least for 1-2 Hours .. ( Then it's back to Normal = Stage 1 Shoots the Humidity to 65%-66% )

    Which it does on Dry 46-50 % Humidity Outside Days .. this is Reflected in the Fact that Stage 1 Inside Coil ( Not ) the Same as Stage 2 inside Coil Temp.

    Working on Inter-coolers for Turbo Cars - Mass - plays a Large Role in the Valuations of Air Flow needed for Design ..
    Obviously the Eff% is much Higher on A/C system during Rain .. Even thou the Outside Humidity is Higher for this Day . ( 4 Ton 2 stage ) 17 SEER

    Looking @ Dry 46-50 % Humidity Outside Days .. this is Reflected in the Fact that Stage 1 Inside Coil ( Not ) Same Temperature as Stage 2 inside Coil Temp.
    If the Air Flow was Calculated Correctly for ECM Programming Air Flow = ( ? ) there Shouldn't be 8 Degree Difference .. ( SHOULD THERE ) ?

    1. There would be No Difference between Stages . . Stage 1 & Stage 2 Coil Temp should be approx .5 Degree to 1 Degree ?
    2. It's Very Possible the - Heavier Mass - of High Eff Coil ( Read Larger ) wasn't taken into Account as Much as it should have been ?

    I Posted those in Questions , and Thanks for Honest Inputs . .

  7. #46
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    Jan 2015
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    Thread Starter
    Correction - Inside Coil Temp Between Stages is more like 12 Degree .. Just trying to get all the Wrinkles worked out on the ECM's Air Flow .
    Sure seems like the Inside Coil Temps should remain Tighter between Stages ..

  8. #47
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    Few 2 stage systems run the evap coil near the same temp between first and second stage. The longer run time of a properly sized 2 stage, doesn't require it. However, a grossly over sized unit, won't dehumidify right in either stage, like yous doesn't.

    You have created a problem, and are blaming the manufacturers for it. By trying to say they designed the equipment wrong.

    If there is a problem with your system. Then you need a good service tech to come out and spend some time checking it, and sorting out the issues.
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  9. #48
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    Jan 2015
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    Thread Starter
    OK , so 12 Degree difference - between - Stage 1 and Stage 2 is Not a Good Match . .

    OK, I Understand _ Your saying ECM Motor needs Better Programming of a Slower Speed for Just Stage 1
    A Larger Inside Coil was used for Air Flow Eff% I'm Informed By Installer - which would have More Mass ( Weight ) seems that could have caused
    the Big Temp Spread on Stage 1 .

    Pretty sure If Stage 1 Coil would be 48 Degree there would be ( No Humidity Issues Running Up Quickly in Stage 1 )

    Looking Back 2-3 Pages the Info Posted about Dew Temps - should have been Enough to show the ECM Air Flow in Stage 1 Is Off .

  10. #49
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    All the trouble your having is from an over sized unit. And probably also an incorrect set up on the air handler. A good tech can make the first stage blower speed lower then listed in the manual for first stage.

    You want better humidity, either get the smaller A/C you should have gotten, or get a whole house dehumidifier.
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  11. #50
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    Jan 2015
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    Thread Starter
    OK Good to Know - so - there are about 16 Different Settings approx ?
    Serial communication of the ECM 2.5 motor , Inside Split 100% variable Trane Air Handler ?

    25% to 100% of the max CFM the module is programed for, in 5% increments Which are left Up to the ( Manufacture to SET )
    It's Possible then the Settings are Off - Hence Stage 1 to Warm .

  12. #51
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    You need a quality oriented contractor to come out and see what he can do for your system.

    However, it will never be as good as if you had the right sized system installed.
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  13. #52
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Shophound View Post
    For this to work with a compressor that is staged (low speed/high speed) the indoor blower speed could be varied to maintain either a preferred discharge air temperature (55ΊF, commonly) or a preferred coil surface temperature to maximize coil dehumidification potential. The problem is that most residential compressors have no way to diminish speed in an analog fashion or load/unload the compression chamber in order to tightly hold the coil surface or discharge air temperature.

    Sure, it can be done more loosely just by varying blower speed, but a steady rate of air over the indoor coil coupled with a compressor that can modulate capacity is a preferred approach. The trick to getting an evaporator coil good and cold to dehumidify well, with steady air volume through the coil, is to keep suction pressure inside it down to maximize phase change over a maximum area of the coil, but not so low that the coil begins to freeze over.
    preferred coil surface temperature 48 Degrees to maximize coil de-humidification potential - YES - as Certainly
    64 Degrees just isn't going to work ..

    There doesn't seem to be any Air Fluctuation or Pressure changes in Stage 1 / In Stage 2 there are some small ones
    ( Hear It Shifting Load - some )
    Mostly due to Chimney _ Relieving Itself - Dependent on Shade an Time of Day = Temp of Brick & Flue ..
    Air Tight Insert - is 90 % Windows are 80% - Outside Wind Load - Mild .

    Stage 1 isn't really doing much of anything it has a ( Constant Sound )- 64 Degree is Maybe 60% of - It's Potentially .. Correct Set Up
    seeing Intake Air is 75-78 Degree's Top's and basement intake Air is 69 Degree's

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