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Why?
I don't get it.
Originally Posted by
RezAtDorsia
The 15% is used to cap the 56% or whatever you use, it's not bonding the metals. I always use that technique it works very well.
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Usually when I have to do this its on larger (2"+) connections. I find that the 56% I use (also tried the orange sticks... Meh) it doesn't flow around the joint very well. You kind of hAve to do it section by section (even with a #30 tip). You can make a good weld but there may be small gaps, or rough spots here and there. The 15% just smooths everything out, flows into any gaps and put a nice cap on it.
If you are dealing with smaller connections and can use a large flame you may not need to use it, but the 45 or 56 doesn't flow like the 15 does you will see.
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I have just spent the last two weeks welding 1 5/8", 2 1/8", 2/5/8" and 4 1/8" copper tube with several copper to steel connections.
I have used 45% rod, 45% Flux coated rod, and a few sticks of some 37% rod concoction with flux in the middle that the wholesaler sent by mistake.
All of them worked well and I have no issue with it flowing into the joint and building a nice smooth cap of 45% on the joint.
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I still don't get it. I've used that high content silver solder with the white flux on fittings up to 3 or 4", no problems. Putting a cap weld with silphos means you are not doing something proper with the silver solder.
That's wasted time and material on a job.
With steel [I think] the phosphorus reacts with the steel and creates a brittle joint, so that is definitely the wrong choice regarding steel.
With brass, if you lack ability / confidence / experience with the high content silver, Harris makes a product that is similar to silphos to braze copper to brass. You use it the same as silphos but it requires no additional flux. I've used it on 4" and above copper to brass with excellent results.
But silphos over high content silver is simply ridiculous. Sorry.
Originally Posted by
RezAtDorsia
Usually when I have to do this its on larger (2"+) connections. I find that the 56% I use (also tried the orange sticks... Meh) it doesn't flow around the joint very well. You kind of hAve to do it section by section (even with a #30 tip). You can make a good weld but there may be small gaps, or rough spots here and there. The 15% just smooths everything out, flows into any gaps and put a nice cap on it.
If you are dealing with smaller connections and can use a large flame you may not need to use it, but the 45 or 56 doesn't flow like the 15 does you will see.
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Whatever gets the job done
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Originally Posted by
RezAtDorsia
Whatever gets the job done
You would run all the high silver content solder out of the joint because 15% melts at a higher temperature.
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Jeez, just do it right the first time. Doing the same job twice just doesn't make sense.
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It's about a minute more of brazing, not a big deal.
Maybe we can't all flow 45% as well, hats off to you buddy. Just a suggestion for those of us not as highly skilled.
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Somebody on this site has the tag that goes something like this:
"Instead of learning the tricks of the trade, why not learn the trade."
Just saying.
For what it is worth, the preparation of the silver solder joint is critical to it's success. The preparation can take longer than the actual soldering of the joint takes. And as Jtrammel said in post #26, the heat required to make the silphos joint can burn out the high silver content joint.
Just learn to do it right, then you can laugh at the rookies that can't do it proper.
Originally Posted by
RezAtDorsia
It's about a minute more of brazing, not a big deal.
Maybe we can't all flow 45% as well, hats off to you buddy. Just a suggestion for those of us not as highly skilled.
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I use 56% and stay silv flux. I think that stuff is easier to use and makes nicer looking joints than 15&. It flows like solder and its easier to keep from getting all buggered looking.
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I have seen capping of 45% with 15% many time, by many good mechanics.
I believe the cap provides a finished product that does not require wire wheeling post braze.
I sometimes do it, but I choose the wire wheel in locations that are visible, that polished look, looks pro, and doesn't corrode.
this is usually on 2 5/8 or bigger connections at service valves of screws or large regulators.
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Keep a water spray bottle handy. As soon as you are done with the solder joint, spray it with water, all the flux will pop right off and you are left with a perfect professional joint. No need to spend all that time wire wheeling everything.
If you really feel the need to cap a copper to brass high silver content joint, why even bother using that high silver content solder to begin with? Been trying to remember the name of the Harris product, I think it is called Blockade. You use it just like silphos, except it is rated for copper to brass with no additional flux. Just use that and be done with it. Call Harris to verify the product name.
Originally Posted by
indy2000
I have seen capping of 45% with 15% many time, by many good mechanics.
I believe the cap provides a finished product that does not require wire wheeling post braze.
I sometimes do it, but I choose the wire wheel in locations that are visible, that polished look, looks pro, and doesn't corrode.
this is usually on 2 5/8 or bigger connections at service valves of screws or large regulators.
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the wire wheel, makes it look cleaner after the water clean
like I said, the capping is an old school trick, to burn off the flux that may be hiding near the surface.
you don't use 15% on those types of joints as the braze is too brittle., hence the higher Ag.
there is a lot of personal preference in this area, I'm just stating, what I have seen in the field.
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I use a wire wheel to clean mine up. Makes the joint nice and clean as mentioned. It also cleans any oxidation off the outside of the copper.
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