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  1. #1
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    AX Permanent Override

    Is there any way that I can restrict the permanent override feature for some users and allow it for others in a station? TIA

  2. #2
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    Permenant override is achieved with flags even with station reboot. Flags are saved in bog file.

    Right click menu is not customizable based on user selection.

    You could separate sp and fan in the overrides and have separate widgets based on users category. Assign the sp components to respected categories.

    This is what I could come up with if the requirement is custom right click per user.

    Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

  3. #3
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    Thread Starter
    Thanks!

  4. #4
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    You can add a manually add a a facet to the point called MaxOverideDuration and set it to a time. I would have to check the exact name but that will limit them to no more than XX.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

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  6. #5
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    Thanks. That's what I was planning on doing, then they threw me a curve ball.

  7. #6
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    Ahh, you need different options for different users. Think apler is on it, use two points and pick based on whos logged in.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  8. #7
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    Certainly not a good solution, but Emergency overrides are always permanent, so you could (but probably should not) assign users that need the ability to permanent as administrators to allow them the ability to permanently override.

    Controls is a lifestyle not a job

  9. #8
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    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by orion242 View Post
    You can add a manually add a a facet to the point called MaxOverideDuration and set it to a time. I would have to check the exact name but that will limit them to no more than XX.
    Thanks man, I really needed a solution to permanent overrides!!!!
    Law Of The Thermostat: He who has the thermostat wins!!!!!

  10. #9
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    Look, maybe this is a really dumb question - but why on earth would you ever allow site to permanently override anything?
    Because from a HVAC perspective, that says to me that either the mech-elect maintenance & repairs aren't being done, or the BMS program isn't quite right. The former should never (imo) be a reason to permanently override a command sequence, and the latter is (hopefully) where you can make some money by revising the strategy to better suit the user's requirements.

    What am I missing?

  11. #10
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    Reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by FreezerGeezer View Post
    Look, maybe this is a really dumb question - but why on earth would you ever allow site to permanently override anything?
    Because from a HVAC perspective, that says to me that either the mech-elect maintenance & repairs aren't being done, or the BMS program isn't quite right. The former should never (imo) be a reason to permanently override a command sequence, and the latter is (hopefully) where you can make some money by revising the strategy to better suit the user's requirements.

    What am I missing?
    1. The fan air flow switch is inoperative during the weekend and you don't want to call the maintenance person in at overtime rates.

    2. You want to shut down all the air handlers during an eruption of a volcano.

    Anyways just a few!!!
    Law Of The Thermostat: He who has the thermostat wins!!!!!

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  13. #11
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    Simux, sorry but I disagree with those examples.

    The first, in my opinion, should be done as a timed override of, say, 36 hours. That way, it will alarm out again in normal working hours and remind the operator (or inform another operator if the one who overrode it isn't at work for some reason) to organise a visit & repair.
    I've seen WAAAY too many systems in manual, or over-ridden, and been that way so long no-one can remember why, or find the paperwork (assuming any was done! ) The amount of energy that can be wasted in this was is quite staggering, never mind the unnecessary wear and tear on equipment.
    Additionally, if the AFS is over-ridden it might cause severely adverse system operation. For example, a recent project had a complex natural ventilation system linked to mechanical vent / air conditioning. The AFS was used to prove the AHU was running, and therefore lock out the natural ventilation. In that case, were the AHU not running because the conditions were requesting natural ventilation, the latter couldn't run because the AFS would be preventing it. Therefore the only ventilation the area would be getting would be incidental from the doors (all the windows & vents were controlled as part of the Nat Vent system). Better to have a useful reminder that there's a problem, than be reminded by influential occupants complaining that they're uncomfortable!

    In the second scenario, you'd still need to put everything back to auto eventually. Unless you had one universal override, or had a means of seeing which points on your system were overridden without having to check every point (I've seen this done with a BQL if I recall correctly) you could have a big job on your hands making sure all overrides had been removed.

    My opinion is that a truly permanent override is to be avoided like the plague. I simply can't see how it has more benefits than drawbacks?

  14. #12
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    There are times for a permanent override.

    How about this example. Mixed air unit with steam heating coil and DX cooling. Heat and damper control sequence has a discharge low limit control. Discharge air sensor fails. Massive overheat in June when steam valve opens to bring up discharge air temp. (365 steam on this facility.) For whatever reason the sensor can not be replaced today (unit hung above a pool that needs to be drained to erect a scaffold, not happening until September shutdown). DX cooling does not need a discharge low limit (and really should not be controlled by one other than as a safety low limit to prevent frost). So I want to permanently override the discharge air temp and the valve to prevent the overheat until the hardware is fixed. The day the hardware is fixed the override will be released. I do not want to have the override release and cook the space again because some timer ran out.

    If you do not have some method to track why things are overridden and some method to find undocumented overrides on a regular basis, then you deserve to hire me to come in and recommission your system. This will remove your overrides for you. I can even set up a system to report your overrides and a notes field to enter why you overrode the point in the first place.

    I agree permanent overrides are overused. If you know a way to have "override" in the Tridium system default to something other than permanent, but still have permanent available I would like to know how. (a defaultOverride time facet?) I know about maxOveridetime but that defaults to max, so if I make it long enough for the special cases it is too long for most cases.

  15. #13
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    Hi Bill

    I agree with you that there are times when it's the way to go, it's just that (like most of us I suspect) I've seen so many things in manual or off for various reasons over the years that always seem to come back to 'don't know' or worse 'it's too expensive to fix / the bosses don't think it's important' or even worse - they think they have fixed the problem by 'making it go away' and don't see why they need to do anything more! lol

    Another one is they've been overridden in the emergency slot for convenience while commissioning or something, and the person doing it has forgotten to release the override later on. I've had that happen quite often when working as part of a team (and done it myself) and then it's a case of finding who overrode the point and seeing "if they still need it overridden, or can you release it to be able to test something else in the chain please?"

    So I still prefer to avoid permanent overrides like the plague.

    If I ever figure out how to default to timed override but still allow permanent, I'll let you know. I'm still learning!

    (Sorry to the OP for taking this thread a bit off track)

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