If you have alerton questions

[JohnLoves2ski]

We have problems in one of our other offices with the local Alerton rep. The customer is not happy with their performance and wants more access than there current password grants. The system does not perform properly and it appears that their password can only change setpoints. Is there a God password for Alerton or a back door that will allow us to gain more access to the system. The owner called Alerton direct for assistance and was given the cold shoulder. What are the options. Thanks.

Obiwan, Please contact Alerton, and ask for the regional sales rep for your region, contact him/her and tell them your concerns. While they don't have direct control of the dealers, they can exert some influence on them. I don't think they want Alerton delaers acting like this.
You bought the system, you should have any level of password you want, including the ability to restrict the Dealers access if you choose.

[Jimbo_123]

Hi

I have just been asked to engineer an upgrade for an old Alerton system. So far I have found they have an 'Envision for IBEX' head-end, an APEX LT and a number of TUX field controllers downstream of this.

My first hurdle which I have stumbled on is trying to create a basic points list for each controller on the site (or at least all the points used by the supervisor) as there is zero documentation on site, no panel wiring diagrams and no cable numbers!

I assume each IBEX point used on the head-end is created within the APEX and from there, linked to an TUX and channel reference.

My question is - could you tell me how I would go about back engineering these IBEX points to determine their controller & channel? Or is there anyway of exporting a table from the Envision to show this information?

Any help would be much appreciated!

Cheers

[Eric.Nelson]

I'm having trouble getting BACtalk server to talk to the controllers. How does the server find the controllers exactly? I know it runs off the UDP port 47808, but how does the server see it? Is it a unicast or multicast?

[JohnLoves2ski]

"I'm having trouble getting BACtalk server to talk to the controllers. How does the server find the controllers exactly? I know it runs off the UDP port 47808, but how does the server see it? Is it a unicast or multicast?"

Not sure, you should not need to know that level of detail; perform a Device Scan, you should see controllers. Since the Server rides on Ethernet, usually the Ethernet based controllers come in first, followed by the MSTP controllers.
What type of controllers do you have on the same network as your server? Are you seeing some, or none? What version of Alerton software are you using?

First thing to check:
Look at the header at the top of the Envision for BACtalk window - does it say "(offline)"? If so, your software is not seeing the license key.

[JohnLoves2ski]

There is not really a simple way to pull points out of an Ibex system.. You really should contact the installing dealer and ask them to provide you a copy of the installation wiring diagrams. That will get you all the physical points.
If you hire an Alerton Dealer to do the upgrade, they will do all the design work for you,and they are proficient in digging in and finding this level of information. But this time, be super strict about getting all your documentation before you pay them retention on the project.
They have a BCM-Tux device that will allow you to simply replace the front end and global controller, putting your system in a much better condition, for a lot less $$ than replacing the whole thing. The downstream controllers are likely in good shape, and will last you a very long time.

Good luck,
John

[Eric.Nelson]

It was installed by a by a dealer and the dealer is unable to get the controllers to connect to the server which is on another subnet at another site. Does this work via unicast, multicast? How does the server discover the ethernet controllers? Broadcast? It doesn't have any options to look for the device via IP. I have other sites connected to the BACtalk server that reside in a different subnet, and this just recently happened where you could no longer see the missing site. We have cleared the path of anything that could be stopping the 47808 traffic, and the server still does not see the 47808 traffic. Routing works. We can ping the device IP from anywhere on the network.

I just want to know how the network side of this system works. Just plugging it in and knowing it will work does not do it for me. All licenses are up to date and version is, Envision for BACtalk 3.0 (Build 0025), and it is online. I can adjust other HVACs at other sites.

[JohnLoves2ski]

Lol - your dealer needs to send you a more qualified guy. Alerton has an internal network design guide that the dealer has access to; this plus Alerton's Dealer Tech Support should be able to help even the newer guy get your problem resolved.
Here's some basics on how it works:
Your server should be speaking BACnet IP. ( technically, BACnet IP is UDP/IP) One of the Alerton globals in the SAME subnet as your server is set up as a BBMD (Bacnet Broadcast Management Device) and also speaks BACnet IP. One Global controller in each subnet is set up as a BBMD, and the BBMD's pass all the data that needs to go from one subnet to another. They basically act as routers, keeping local data from passing and passing data that other subnets require. Each BBMD has a table in it listing the IP Addresses of the other BBMD's in the BACnet network. It's super solid communications, and it restores itself after power fails or internet interruptions, etc.

BBMD's today conform to "Annex J", the latest revision of the BACnet standard relating to BBMD's and such.
BBMD setup can be a little tricky, as there are setups for private Annex J, and public Annex J, depending on whether or not you will be traversing the internet, and the two need to have different UDP ports.
I can't tell you what these values should be, as it can all be set up in a hundred ways and still work.. Your dealer should be able to produce a network map for you that shows all the nodes on the Ethernet, including the BBMD's and their settings. If memory serves, everything inside the subnet should share the same UDP, and all the BBMD's share a different UDP. Don't quote me on that - I usually whip out the design guide myself when I am setting up a network.

As far as messaging goes, I believe that BACnet is multicast inside the subnet, unicast through the BBMD's.

Good Luck!
John

It was installed by a by a dealer and the dealer is unable to get the controllers to connect to the server which is on another subnet at another site. Does this work via unicast, multicast? How does the server discover the ethernet controllers? Broadcast? It doesn't have any options to look for the device via IP. I have other sites connected to the BACtalk server that reside in a different subnet, and this just recently happened where you could no longer see the missing site. We have cleared the path of anything that could be stopping the 47808 traffic, and the server still does not see the 47808 traffic. Routing works. We can ping the device IP from anywhere on the network.

I just want to know how the network side of this system works. Just plugging it in and knowing it will work does not do it for me. All licenses are up to date and version is, Envision for BACtalk 3.0 (Build 0025), and it is online. I can adjust other HVACs at other sites.

[lowdrive]

I will review a little bit.

47808 (BAC0 in hex) is the default/suggested port address, but not mandatory. It might be something else. Another subnet might have already had another bacnet system in place using 47808 and the dealer just decided to use another port for the entire system.

It is possible for the server to be communicating via Bacnet/IP OR Bacnet Ethernet. So, it is possible the comm method was changed inadvertently.

The global controllers are configured using a null modem connected via Hyperterminal in Windows. Some will have a switch of some sort to enable the config connection. On the BCM-Eth the 232 port is inside the cover. You can take a laptop to the local global controller and connect via hyperterminal to see the actual configuration including IP address, subnet mask, port address, etc. That way you know how you should be communicating.

With a lower security level you may not be able to change the configuration of the server.



I am with those that believe if the warranty is up, the dealer should not be able to hold the owner out of the system. I would see what the courts have to say about that.

[JohnLoves2ski]

I don't think he said anything about a dealer keeping him out of the system, they just sent a tech that wasn't smart enough to call tech support for assistance.

I am with those that believe if the warranty is up, the dealer should not be able to hold the owner out of the system. I would see what the courts have to say about that.

[simsd]

Anyone know the differnce between a VAVi-SD and a VAV-SD? I'm thinking the i was one made as an OEM for Krueger VAV boxes, but mayne someone could shed some light on this for me.

[CB_Matt]

Anyone know the differnce between a VAVi-SD and a VAV-SD? I'm thinking the i was one made as an OEM for Krueger VAV boxes, but mayne someone could shed some light on this for me.

One has the Actuator integrated with the controller. The other is controller only.

[learning08]

can I have multi server (server and not clients!) in:
1. same network
2. across networks

asking this coz i want to login to a alerton system running ebt2.1. hopefully i can log in as server. must the bbmd setup be changed coz of this. I believe there is a setup for a roaming pc for logging in for this purpose oledy but not sure. need to verify. asking this before i try changing setup in my pc to duplicate what i think is the roaming pc setup to login.

[learning08]

sorry, bbmd doesn't hv info about the pc ...

[learning08]

nor does the bbmd need info about the pc i guess...

[jupterj]

I cannot add companion trends to my trend view despite the fact that "All Privliges" is checked. What gives?

[PlatinumRH]

jupiterj, are you trying to add them in the table view? You should be able to right click at the top heading in the table view and add them.

[jupterj]

Yeah, apparently, on this version or system in particular, you have to make sure you select "In order by timestamp" or the "Add companion" trends dialogue will be grayed out. "In order recorded" will not let you. Is there a way to set the default to "In order by timestamp?" Also, is there a way to setup companion trendlogs that are immediately viewable with one click?

Thanks!

~T

[CraziFuzzy]

I think my biggest question about EBT is this, which I asked myself, and continue to be asked by every operator how comes across the system:
"How can I see a summary of all current alarms on the system". This has been a constant gripe from the first time i sat down with this system, and it seems ridiculous to my that it's not easy. The 2+ hour 'scan every device for current alarms' is not an answer.

[xarralu]

Hello gents,

I got a few questions. I'm interfacing to an Alerton system and hitting some road blocks. First when I discover (using ALC) all I'm seeing is the BCM-ETH router and 1000 points that are in it, but none of the controllers under it. So when I put my JACE on the MS/TP side, I'm able to see the controllers and points but there are very few points I can write to.

I have read through the guide and these are the points that should be able to be written to. I have attached some screen shots of one of the controllers that I brought the points into my JACE and most are read only that should be read/write. Is there any way to make them read/write using EBT-front end? Thanks for any help!

[cdpixton]

Hello, I have IBEX for Windows v5.2, build 006, running on Windows 98. Can I run this on Windows XP? I'm told the software wants to be on an 8-bit system. I got it to run on XP but won't recognize the software dongle (on the parallel port), so it won't work. Thanks for any help.

Clayton