Help - can't breathe in my house

[Carnak]

Ventilate intermittently at a higher rate

use an erv

use a 100% outside air unit

[Carnak]

you want to get syphillis and keep getting a shot of penecillin, pump in an excessive steady amount of unconditioned air and then run a dehumidifier

[Carnak]

Carnak
I agree with everything you said - so you must know what you are talking about.

Seriously, you do make some very good points.
1. My experience confirms that water leaks (or a flood) are usually associated with high penicillium/aspergillius counts.
2. Mold will not grow spontaneously. However, spores are always in the air. (it is the only thing that is in a pollen count 365 days of the year.) All it needs is moisture and a good protein food source.

Tests can be helpful. It is just my experience that they either tell us something that is obvious or don't tell us anything at all.

For example, let's look at testing for dust mites. I used to sell a dust mite test kit. But every single one we sold came up with a positive result. In our area (Texas) almost all beds, pillows and carpets have dust mites. Therefore, it is pretty safe to assume that an allergic person with problems at night should start by encasing their mattresses and pillows. (By the way we stopped selling the test kits because I thought it was a rip-off.)

To confirm your statement about fresh air and hygenists - the hygenist for the house I just mentioned recommended doubling the amount of fresh air we initially recommended. I can't see how they are going to avoid problems.

The hygenists will document a problem, and make very few recommendations and they usually worded without teeth "In NYC they recommend this" or "in Chicago the authorities recommend...", but they never really say "do this and your problem is gone"

I tend to look at things, and I am focusing on humidity, determine the cause- 95% of the time it is the way outdoor air moves into the building, stop the greater evil, chronic sky high RH, condensation and the eventual mold, then see what they can afford to do about CO2 levels.

In the case of the guy who cannot breathe in his house, this would be an instance where he should see what exactly he is breathing in the first place.

All the lab tests here seem to get done in Florida. I tired some surface test kits, its basically like a band-aid with a grid instead of a guass pad, you stick it back on a piece of plastic, fill in a chain of custody and fed ex it up. I do not have a particle counter or an air sampler, like I said I focus on the chronic high humidity problems, sometimes they are bad enough to make it rain indoors. Anyplace, where the outdoor dewpoint is higher than what people set their thermostats at can be prone to indoor rain.

[Carnak]

The worst par about the constant fresh air, when using an air handler is the re-evaporation of water and the evaporative cooling effect that increases the length of the off cycle.

The condition is aggrivated further by untreated outside air being pumped in on the off cycle

[pmeunier]

The worst par about the constant fresh air, when using an air handler is the re-evaporation of water and the evaporative cooling effect that increases the length of the off cycle.

The condition is aggrivated further by untreated outside air being pumped in on the off cycle

Sounds like a job for a ventilating whole house dehumidifier... I'm a bit confused because in another thread you didn't seem to like them too much, but I'm unclear as to why exactly.

[Carnak]

well in a home you would run the fan in auto mode and not have the problem I described

The downside of running a fan constantly on air conditioning is you need a compressor running a good 20 minutes to get a net removal of mositure in that scenario

The constnat fan and the constant fresh air is a result of people worried about lawyers who have learned the term 'sick building syndrome"

they prescribe adding moere continuous fresh air and it makes it worse

So if you want to keep lawyers off of your back and spend more money on energy, run a dehumidifier

If you want to be smart, give good IAQ and save energy, take other approaches

I use dehumidifiers where they are pychormetrically required, when I need tight control of humidity, or soemtimes when it is the easiest bad aid fix.

[teddy bear]

well in a home you would run the fan in auto mode and not have the problem I
So if you want to keep lawyers off of your back and spend more money on energy, run a dehumidifier

If you want to be smart, give good IAQ and save energy, take other approaches

I use dehumidifiers where they are pychormetrically required, when I need tight control of humidity, or soemtimes when it is the easiest bad aid fix.

Wow! That's a big endorsement coming from you. Thanks, Regards TB

[Carnak]

Wow! That's a big endorsement coming from you. Thanks, Regards TB

I just use them where they are needed, I don't sell them to cure the common cold

[Carnak]

laying out the design for a mansion right now, it is going vrv.

Have this unit independent of the vrv

duct chased up the 'hotel grand' style spiral stair case in the middle of the house, to cool the central core. Should have me covered for two weeks of overcast/rain, as typically 2/3 of the load is glass to look out at the multi-million dollar view they paid for

http://www.heatpipe.com/ProductsServ...P%20450-AC.pdf

probably use them more if I had musty basements

[teddy bear]

laying out the design for a mansion right now, it is going vrv.

Have this unit independent of the vrv

duct chased up the 'hotel grand' style spiral stair case in the middle of the house, to cool the central core. Should have me covered for two weeks of overcast/rain, as typically 2/3 of the load is glass to look out at the multi-million dollar view they paid for

http://www.heatpipe.com/ProductsServ...P%20450-AC.pdf

probably use them more if I had musty basements

Good looking piece of equipment. How does the cost of this impressive piece equipment compare to a conventional 40,000 btu simple a/c plus a Ulta-Aire 150H dehumidifier? No dollars statement please. Is it 2X, 3X, or 4X more? As a dehu, the UA 90H removes 7.9 Lbs. per KW verses 5.5 lbs./kw at a fraction of the cost. If your customers want to make that kind of investment in unique equipment, great. I believe it's overkill in most cases. The smaller ducted dehu connected to each a/c is a more practical investment and much simplier to install and maintain. But you have come a long way and the concept is good. Regards TB

[Carnak]

its cheaper than 3 150s or 5 90s

does both functions

big house

bigger loads than you are geared up for , not in kansas ( wisconsin) any more toto

[Carnak]

I heard the amish heaters save money on the heating bills up there

[teddy bear]

How many sq.ft. is this mansion? Explain how you bring in fresh air with this system. How do distribute the fresh air throughout the home? How many lbs. of moisture are retained on the cooling coil at the end of the dehumidification cycle? When that moisture evaporates back into the home, how much does it raise the indoor %RH? My guess is that a 18 lb. per hour dehu is grossly over-sized for this mansion. We usely use a 6 lb. per hour of dehumidification for 5,000 sq.ft.. The moisture slowly evaporates back into the home. This is a problem with a over-sized dehu. But to your credit it is dehumidification.
Yes, 5000 btus of heat in one room while the rest of the home freezes saves energy. Amish do not use electricty, go figure.
Regards TB

[Carnak]

Teddy you size them for about a 1/4 air change an hour when a 40 pint kenmore would do

Double the mositure content in the outdoor air and double the size of the home and be in the ball park

this cools the big central core and will dry the whole mansion out

The main ac is vrv all over the place about 20 tons worth, that is with a diversity factor the load is sized like a VAV system when the building peaks, the sum of the connected fan coil capaciities is higher

there is a ton of glass to look at the sea, it puts the load up

sounds like a product that cools a house when needed, dries the house out when needed and can bring in some fresh air no problem. All in one unit, imagine that

Do not even have to insulate the line set.

What do you sell that is comparable in function and capacity. I am guessing nothing

[rayl4infiniti]

I have a merv 16 5" filter in my house, got it from lennox,only place i have found that carrys a merv 16,where else can i buy

[pstu]

I have a merv 16 5" filter in my house, got it from lennox,only place i have found that carrys a merv 16,where else can i buy

I just did a Google search and found the following vendors which may be able to help you. Choose your own vendor, I have not done business with any of them:

http://www.thefilterstore.com/

http://www.airfilterusa.com/

http://www.aafilters.com/

http://www.yourfilterconnection.com/

http://www.airconditioning-filter.com/

Hope this helps -- Pstu

[Danimal535]

Get Trane Clean Effects and a honeywell steam humidifier

[rayl4infiniti]

easy and cheap----merv 16 filter the best whole house filter you can buy,add a uvc light,make sure your return air is sealed 100%if you want to go all out then you can do hepa.merv 16 is a 95 % eff filter.

[behappy]

Very good posts and good responses T.B. and C.

In one of our older homes we had the same problem. The wife had the allergy test(s) and had to take the shots for relief! I don't put a lot of faith in these tests....

Basically it wasn't until we removed the "old" carpets, and they were cleaned by Stanley twice a year, and repaired the duct work that she got relief!
Part of the duct work was concealed in a chase and was full of mold. She has not taken a shot for allergies since then.

You say the duct work is located under the floor in a crawl space. It could be "leaking" and drawing in mold?? Get ride of those old carpets and then treat the air. Fix the obvious first. IMHO

[Toolboy]

Please consider getting the indoor air tested first for humidity, allergens, VOC's, and carbon monoxide as the symptoms for these are often similar and confused. It is often cheaper and easier to treat a known problem than to guess. The cost of a test will be money well spent. Good Luck!