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  1. #1
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    Climate Talk Protocol by Emerson

    Has anybody heard of this?

    http://www.emersonclimate.com/contra...cts/ultratech/

    http://climatetalk.com/wrdclt/index.html

    Apparently Emerson makes their own indoor, and outdoor (if necessary for remote condenser) Circuit boards, ECM Motor, and the Copeland Scroll Compressor. They are then adapted by the OEM to work in a speciofic unit and application. These all talk to each other to tell, for example, a new reoplacement board what unit it is in and how to behave.

    There are only 2 OEMs that have adopted this so far, and they will be releasing units using it soon, presumably at the AHR expo in Chicago, but that is only speculation on my part.

    I want to know if this is the wave of the future, a fad, prone to problems, very flexible - anything from someone who has seen it. The Emerson people seem more concerned with keeping it a secret than selling it apparently, info has been VERY hard to come by. This on top of the general confusion at emerson in general.

    Thanks for the input.

    NOTE: I tried to post about this earlier, but the thread apparently had issues.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  2. #2
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    Found this:

    http://www.sabatinoday.com/clients/E...o_Generic.html

    Anybody with a little hands on experience work on this or seen it before?
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  3. #3
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    Found out RUUD is using it in their ultra series units:

    http://www.ruudac.com/products/Produ...roduct_ccs.xsl

    And Trane as well:

    http://www.trane.com/Residential/Pro...cating-Systems


    Anyone work on these systems?
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  4. #4
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    Why now would you want some potentially proprietary control language?

  5. #5
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    Thread Starter
    I'm not interested in the language per se, I'm interested in if this is a sound platform to build a unit on. Having worked on over engineered Carrier systems that require the threat of a firebomb in their offices to get coherent tech support, or seeing motors rated for 134.8 RPM that you can't get from anywhere but a small province in cambodia, I was wanting the inside scoop on how well the new technology works, and if it is easy to use and service. Exactly how they talk is not my interest so much.

    I may have this thing in the wrong forum, it seemed a controls related item.

    PS how you doin'? long time no read.

    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  6. #6
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    The reason I bring it up is that if it's some self-guided single company attempt at a communication protocol you do end up getting familiar with Cambodian tech support.

    Otherwise, it's what we call a standard and their are many ways to support it. That's why I ask. If I were a HVAC contractor that's what I'd be asking these guys.

    Typically what you get is some engineering design team that wants to reinvent the communication wheel. They end up running into issues, stumble into Modbus and try to get that to work. Really, they aren't much different than DIYer's, when what they should do is select an established platform and supply product based on that with help from professional OEM providers that do this sort of thing daily.

  7. #7
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    From what I understand it is an RJ45 platform that has been modified to allow for the average technician to wire it wrong several times before he he reads the manual and hooks it up right (it won't blow the internal workings)

    I am worried about the reinventing the wheel scenario, and investing in something I cant find english language literature on later.

    It seems helpfull that the thing is put out by reputable players like Emerson Ruud and Trane, but then again, Carrier is reputable, but it does not make their equipment any less complicated.

    That is why I am looking for anyone who has worked on it or heard about it.

    I heard from one guy on another forum that has installed a Ruud unit or two with this in it, and loved it.

    Not that I ever go to other forums besides H-talk of course.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

  8. #8
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    Lightbulb Open protocol

    ClimateTalk is not proprietary, it is open. And it now has a wikipedia page. It is not RJ45, It is 2-4 wires regardless of how many stages or sensors you have, wired as systems used to be wired (standard 18 awg thermostat wire) from thermostat to indoor to outdoor.

    Please feel free to ask questions. If they are what I can answer, I will.

  9. #9
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  10. #10
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    Weird, I haven't heard anything about this in the Emerson Network Power / Liebert branch.

    Left hand isn't talking to the right in Emerson big picture here, which may mean it is destined to stay in the residential sector?

  11. #11
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    I still think that having to pay for something, and even more - become a member and what not. It voids the very essence of "open". Comparing to another open protocol such as Modicons Modbus, the difference in approach is definately there.

  12. #12
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    as against zigbee?

    which costs $3500 annual membership before once can develop products using their specifications?

    Please do not confuse this with "selling" a license to use the protocol.

    Proprietary means you cannot see or use the specs outside who the developer wants to let see. Open means anyone (regardless of competitive positioning) can become a member, develop products, drive direction, and promote.

  13. #13
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    I was at the meeting where they handed off the 'protocol' to that third party to develop it. I spent a breif time with a manufacturer and we were exploring using the protocol on a circuit board for a new product I was developing.
    THe SUPER condensed version of events is that I called Emerson looking for a circuit board that utilized climate talk
    - you need to sign this confidetiality waver
    - confidentiality so I don't tell people about what? I just want to know if you have a board
    - you must sign
    - Ok - happy now? so about that board....
    - we have a very flexible protocol, it can do whatever you want
    - That's great, I guess, but there is no info online, and what you sent me after I signed the waiver tells me that it 'shall do' this and that like an ingeneer's spec. An engineer's spec is a far cry from a usable working piece of equipment. do you have any circuit boards you can show me?
    - what do you want it to do?
    - I want it to run my heatpump, I told you already...
    - we need a list of inputs and outputs, their ranges, conditions the system will be operating under, a fan configuration program....
    - Uh, so that woud mean you don't have any circuit boards?
    - Come t this meeting at the AHR Expo in Cicago, we can explain there.
    - Well ok, I'll be there anyhow.

    The meeting was a cheerleading session for the press about how this will revolutionize the industry. EXTREMELYshort on specifics. VERY VERY vague.
    - So about that circuit board, I contacted you 3 months ago, and I still don't have anything resembling a piece of hardware in my hands, maybe ther is another someone I should be talking to there at Emerson.
    - We are the ones in charge of the climate talk protocol
    - Could you at least tell me if there are ANY systems running this protocol yet? (I know there are at least 2)
    - Of course!! No fewer than 10 major manufacturer's have signed on, but I can't tell you their names, it's confidential.
    - GEEZ! did you take classes in how not to answer questions?! I need a circuit board!!! Does one physically exist?
    - We need a list of outputs .....

    So we never used it. It seems like it is in the early stages of development, and it may not be widespread for at least another year to 2 years. I have very rarely had a more infuriating experience with a manufacturer. It was worse than trying to find info on a Danfoss product on their website.
    Hmmmm....smells like numbatwo to me.

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