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  1. #1
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    Humidity Issue - NOT Being Address Properly

    The Issue :


    In the case of a variable-speed furnace, its fan motor can work with an outdoor air conditioner and thermostat with a humidity sensor to provide the same effects to the indoor air. It will allow the conditioned air to be added to the home at a lower, consistent speed, pulling more moisture out of the indoor air. If the control senses that the space needs dehumidification but the temperature is at or near the setting, the system reacts by reducing compressor speed and decreasing airflow for maximum dehumidification. This allows the system to operate longer without drastically over-cooling the space. This also means that a homeowner could increase the cooling set point and still be comfortable because the humidity is under control.

    Above is in Trane's Literature somewhere ..

    This is what I Have Installed : BUT

    This is what I'm Getting :

    We are still having Humidity Issues . . . On Going
    Have done many Improvements to Home to stop this !

    Not Much Help ..

    Either the Built in Humidity Requirements on the XL624 are too High or it simply
    can't Control the MotherBoard ..in It's state where a Wire was Cut to Use it as Is
    By Your Tech when Installed ..I Believe Trane has made a Mistake ..

    The system does just the Opposite of what it's supposed to do .. which I'll talk about in
    a later Paragraph ..

    First Up the Built in Stat's Settings for Humidity ( What are those Set At ? )

    Not Installer Settings .. but ( BUILT IN ) ?


    Second Up the Air Handler passing Air Over the Coil is Set up to be 100 % Variable ..

    Only the A/C is 2 stage .

    Only the Heating is 2 Stage .

    Humidity Control is 100% Variable .. 100% Varible Air Handler ! The Stat or Mother Board that Operates the

    Air Handler should be Flowing way down only 10% or a Much Lower CFM it seems it's stuck in stage 1 . . 50% CFM during Cooling Mode . .
    Auto Mode - makes NO Difference . .


    When the First Stage of A/C Stops .. Instead it just Keep Pushing Air at around 40-50%

    which is Stage 1 - Stage 1 is Stopped .. this is Why the Humidity in Home is Pushed

    Right back up to 66%-68% this in a Dangerous Area of Mold - Promotion ..


    It Further is Not the way this System should be Running ..

    It should be Dropping to 10% Flow Rated CFM or Shutting Down .

    System Never Shuts Down Ever .. in .. Summer


    In Winter the System does a Short Run stage 1 then a Long Run stage 2

    And Runs Humidity Level to 40% - 35% Again the System is Not watching the Humidity

    At All ..in Winter more Stage 1 after Stage 2 would provide Better Humidity Control .

    In Winter the Unit will at Least _ Cycle

    There is No Such Cycling at All in Summer ..Nor a much Lower Air Flow of the 100%

    Variable Air Handler ..such as 10% during A/C Falling Off . It still pushes past 45-50%

    Air CFM - this doesn't allow Time enough for Stage 2 to come back on ..

    Nor as the Humidity Raises does stage 2 come back ON .. Hello Stat . . XL624


    Like I have stated the Mother Board is set up for State of Arizona ..

    Not South Eastern ------ Tn

    This Needs to be Sorted Out ... our next Communication will be Certified ..

    As We have to CYA ..on Warranty of Equipment . .

    Eng III Tech Support ..

    SO If You Anywhere Near : TN : Please Help as Trane is NOT Admitting to Bad Equipment . . or Very Poor Programming of the
    Internals with In the Stat !! ( NOT VERY GOOD HUMIDITY ) Recognization !!

  2. #2
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    Jun 2003
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    Until they figure out how to work the miracle of removing moisture with a sensible cooling device, why not use a small dehumidifier when you need latent moisture removed? Use the a/c when you want sensible cooling.
    Keep us posted.
    Regards Teddy Bear
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    East Tenn
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    Thread Starter

    Hey thanks for You - Insight - But anyone got any Real Goods !

    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    Until they figure out how to work the miracle of removing moisture with a sensible cooling device, why not use a small dehumidifier when you need latent moisture removed? Use the a/c when you want sensible cooling.
    Keep us posted.
    Regards Teddy Bear
    I have Added a New Dehumidifier . I have also run it back to back to back _ It only makes a few Points difference in the 66%-68%
    We have the same Tonnage as what came out .
    We have closed Up 5 good size Leaks in the Home , Insulated to a R52 from R19 , in the Basement is where We found the Air Only Leaks .
    Basement is Dry . We have an Inner Wall of Brick Lining the Basement this also Averages out any Fluxs ..
    We Up Graded the Basement Windows - those were very poor . Now Very Good .
    We Took Out leaking and Damaged ( 40 yrs. Old ) Window Wells on the Outside of Basement Windows those are Now Water Tight Sealed and Solid Concrete. ..
    We then Stepped Up the to Hard Foam Sealant and Closed Cell -sealed the Freeze Boards _ Full Perimeter . . after the Sealing added R19 = to R23 now .
    Sq. ft wise that comes out to additional 8 x 23 ft room Wall . ( All in the Wet Zone or Humidity Zone of Building !!

    Here's the Issue this System just isn't Performing anywhere close to the old system and Not what's Expected of this Equipment - being 16 Years into the Future ..

    Further More - I once installed a system in 2004 Bumped up to a 115 BTU in a 3000 Sq. Ft Home , going from the Old 1" Axle to 1.25 HP Air Handler
    to a 120 BTU 90% vs the Old 80% with a 3/4 Hp _ No Axle _ 4 Speed Furnace Air Handler - Flushed the Old Lines Re_Added the Old A/c Unit.
    Home was Most Comfortable and the 4 Speed Only went into the Top High Flow 4th Gear during the Storms in Winter or If I pushed the Stat way Up
    like 5 Degrees . Got It _ 4 Different Speeds .
    This Worked Great with the A/C Unit and everything worked well and No Humidity Issues ( 100 ft from one of the Biggest Lakes on this Planet . . . )

    OK _ Back to the 100% Variable Air Handler - HELLO - anyone got anything for This . .
    As it sure is only doing 2 speeds stage 2 , and stage 1 - Yes there is a ramp Up and a Ramp Down to Stage 1 and stage 2 , But there is Not Slow Speed
    like 10% of Full CFM to Keep Humidity Down Between Stages - It Never Cycles Off and so there is this Higher then Needed CFM ( Stage 1 Flow Rate ).
    Pumping the Humidity Right back up to 66% or Higher then stage 2 come on and It has to do the same thing all over again , and again and again .
    Only when I _ Punch the Stat down to 70 or 68 Degrees do We end up with 61% Humidity . . It's Like the Internals of the Stat can't Control the 100% Variable Air Handler which : Means If the Stat is Reading 66% and it goes slower to Cure that ( Which it never seems to Do ) If it was Truly Smart it would just Shut Down . So We have a Dum Stat or Dum Motherboard .

    Certainly Another 12 Years into the Future - a 100% Variable with Humidity Stat - Can't - or Doesn't Know How to Better a 4 Speed form 2004 !
    Ha , Ha Haaaaa - Who are they Kidding !



  4. #4
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    Jan 2015
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    East Tenn
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    Thread Starter
    Current Home on this Trane Equipment is 26oo sq. ft which 900 is basement - only semi conditioned . 2 - 6 rounds set at very Low Flow .
    The Lake Home they didn't count Sq. ft in the Basement , as it was only Semi Finished ..( Really 3700 sq. ft ) now that said the Home was a little Tighter
    being close to the Lake - Has to be 100 % Pool Liner around Basement and 9 inch Pours Walls - Per CODE .
    New Home is Fully Finished in Basement .. with and Extra complete set of Inner walls in Brick .. Dry .. NO Mildew etc.


  5. #5
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    Oct 2010
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    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
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    I'm not sure what the question is? You should have DOD (dehumidify on demand). There's a terminal on the board and star that you have to land a wire, I can't remember the terminal designation. T or D or something like that. Your system fan should shut off as some point in cooling, is the fan switch in the on position instead of auto? Sounds like it's not wired or configured correctly.

  6. #6
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    Thread Starter
    You are most likely Correct , as I Personally have Not Gone Digging into the Wiring ..
    Yet a Tech - Did Twice - it was messed up Fan never came On .. Corrected Fan on A/c Unit working OK
    Stat for Fan in Auto Mode .
    Seems Like Stat just isn't seeing Humidity or a Possible Bad Firmware on this Stat ..
    CHECKING .

    Thanks
    Dan

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Southold, NY
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    1st Are you a Tech?
    2nd from here sounds like the equipment may be oversized, like several times a day was a manual "J", "S", "D" performed? Please post the results. Second heating mode does not dehumidify!

    Has Trane sent a factory certified tech to review the install?

  8. #8
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    Thread Starter
    I'm a Tech in 3 different Fields and an Eng III Tech Support in the N.O.C
    I have been on many Installs and 3 Yrs. installing Tuning and Working on Furnaces , but Sadly that was some time A Go ..

    Thank You All for Your Input ..

    No Test , some Baby Thermometers , Yes some Pressure Test on the A/C Unit Only and one of the CFM Holdy things in front of the Grills ..
    Very Basic ..

    Believe Were going to be Doing a Commissioned Quality - Investigate Next - as for the Last 4 months We thought this was the Buildings Fault .
    Soooo, $700 Dollars in materials & $300.00 in Labor - Really - Looking at the Equipment is Next !

  9. #9
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    Jan 2015
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    Thread Starter
    The Fan is in Auto the A/C is in Cool ..

    This is a 2 Step Single Scroll and I'm a Really Old Guy : LOL
    Model Numbers :
    4TTR7048A1000A
    TUH2C100A9V4VB
    4TXCC060BC3HCB
    T Control 624AS42DA

  10. #10
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    You should expect your a/c to maintain 50%RH easily during the peak of hot day. The problem with these soffisticated a/cs is that it takes a top tec to set them up and maintain. You need a sharp tech to get this to work with moderate to high cooling loads. During evenings and on cool wet days (low/no sensible load and high outdoor dew point), you will need supplemental dehumidification. A small whole house dehumidifier like the Ultra-Aire will do.
    Call trane and explain the problem and look for direction.
    Keep us posted.
    Regards Teddy Bear
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  11. #11
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    East Tenn
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    You should expect your a/c to maintain 50%RH easily during the peak of hot day. The problem with these soffisticated a/cs is that it takes a top tec to set them up and maintain. You need a sharp tech to get this to work with moderate to high cooling loads. During evenings and on cool wet days (low/no sensible load and high outdoor dew point), you will need supplemental dehumidification. A small whole house dehumidifier like the Ultra-Aire will do.
    Call trane and explain the problem and look for direction.
    Keep us posted.
    Regards Teddy Bear
    Thanks Much _ Teddy - We are Tasked to this New Building , so We weren't Experienced with It's Build .
    We got side Tracked to the tune of $1K Tweaking the Building . Read ( Chasing the Humidity )

    At Best getting 61% on a Good Day . System Not shutting down Ever and Fan pushing it right back Up .
    Certainly the Shortest - Strongest Flowing Grill - Flowing A/c In . Read ( Check that Grill 61% Humidity coming In)
    Should be @ Least 50% Feeding Directly In ..

    * Checking Dip Switches today .
    * Then Firmware on Stat .
    * Is there a Special Size Orifice in these Evaps , Matched to say the Tonnage and Could that Be Wrong - leading to
    Poor Performance .. Read Evap Unit Failed Inspection )

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
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    The humidity of the air at the supply register (in the ductwork) should generally be in the 85-95%RH on a properly operating AC that is removing moisture. With high cooling load it should maintain a space RH of 50% or lower. Relative humidity is RELATIVE to the temperature.

    The system very likely uses a TXV for metering.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by QualityAssure View Post
    I have Added a New Dehumidifier . I have also run it back to back to back _ It only makes a few Points difference in the 66%-68%
    We have the same Tonnage as what came out .
    We have closed Up 5 good size Leaks in the Home , Insulated to a R52 from R19 , in the Basement is where We found the Air Only Leaks .
    Basement is Dry . We have an Inner Wall of Brick Lining the Basement this also Averages out any Fluxs ..
    We Up Graded the Basement Windows - those were very poor . Now Very Good .
    We Took Out leaking and Damaged ( 40 yrs. Old ) Window Wells on the Outside of Basement Windows those are Now Water Tight Sealed and Solid Concrete. ..
    We then Stepped Up the to Hard Foam Sealant and Closed Cell -sealed the Freeze Boards _ Full Perimeter . . after the Sealing added R19 = to R23 now .
    Sq. ft wise that comes out to additional 8 x 23 ft room Wall . ( All in the Wet Zone or Humidity Zone of Building !!



    OK _ Back to the 100% Variable Air Handler - HELLO - anyone got anything for This . .
    As it sure is only doing 2 speeds stage 2 , and stage 1 - Yes there is a ramp Up and a Ramp Down to Stage 1 and stage 2 , But there is Not Slow Speed
    like 10% of Full CFM to Keep Humidity Down Between Stages - It Never Cycles Off and so there is this Higher then Needed CFM ( Stage 1 Flow Rate ).
    Pumping the Humidity Right back up to 66% or Higher then stage 2 come on and It has to do the same thing all over again , and again and again .
    Only when I _ Punch the Stat down to 70 or 68 Degrees do We end up with 61% Humidity . . It's Like the Internals of the Stat can't Control the 100% Variable Air Handler which : Means If the Stat is Reading 66% and it goes slower to Cure that ( Which it never seems to Do ) If it was Truly Smart it would just Shut Down . So We have a Dum Stat or Dum Motherboard .

    Certainly Another 12 Years into the Future - a 100% Variable with Humidity Stat - Can't - or Doesn't Know How to Better a 4 Speed form 2004 !
    Ha , Ha Haaaaa - Who are they Kidding !


    Adding a dehumidifier to a malfunctioning a/c will not affect the %RH unless the dehumidification capacity of the dehumidifier exceeds the total latent load of the building. In your case, you are getting to 61%RH at best. This is 60^F dew point. You want 50%RH?? This is a 55^F dew point at 75^F. Your cooling coil must be lower than 45^F when cooling. Currently your coil is +50^F. A tech can check the coil temperature with a thermometer or refrigerant pressure gauge. Also measuring the temperature/%RH of the supply air give the info. Target <52^F/90%RH or so. Operating a dehumidifier which lowers the dew point of the air entering the a/c coil reduces the dehumidification rate a warm coil a/c. With a +55^F a/c coil temperature, the a/c coil will not remove any moisture when the space is 75^F and <60%RH.
    When the a/c operates the must be <45^F or forget it. Homes need 6-8 lbs. per hour of dehumidification per hour to remove the moisture from infiltrating/ventilation air and the occupants with +70^F outdoor dew points.
    You must get the a/c to a <45^F coil temperature. The fan should be off when the compressor is off. You say it never stops.
    You need a 4-6 lbs. per hour dehumidifier for the low/no cooling loads and +60^F outdoor dew points.

    Slow the air flow down and get control of the a/c system. This is a classic example of effect of "complicated system" without technical support. Give me a simple correctly set up high SEER a/c and whole house dehumidifier will provide the desired temperature and %RH.

    Keep us posted.
    Regards Teddy Bear
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  14. Likes ChaseAir liked this post
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