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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by samjam View Post
    I'm curious. If the lines weren't vacuumed then how would the system pressurize? How could the tech claim to get the "correct" pressure on his gauges? Is it possible for the system to be properly pressurized without vacuuming?
    The refrigerant is of higher then atmospheric pressure. It would be quite easy to just pump refrigerant in without the system being under a vacuum.
    If it's got noncondensibles in it then it'll lead a very short life.

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by samjam View Post
    I'm curious. If the lines weren't vacuumed then how would the system pressurize? How could the tech claim to get the "correct" pressure on his gauges? Is it possible for the system to be properly pressurized without vacuuming?
    Of course. You blow into the end of an empty plastic soda bottle - you're pressurized. Done. Do the reverse, you are in a vacuum. But there still might be some soda left in the bottle.

    The point of an appropriate (deep) vacuum is to get all the moisture and crap out of the system before you add refrigerant.

    It should have been pressure tested after he brazed the lines, then vacuumed, then charged with refrigerant.
    Is the Religious Right to blame for Christianity's decline?

    They argued that, as the Religious Right became increasingly visible and militant, it became associated with Christianity itself. And if being a Christian meant being associated with the likes of Jerry Falwell, many people—especially political moderates and liberals—decided to simply stop identifying as Christians altogether.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.c...nitys-decline/

  3. #29
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    Come on SAMJAM, i think we all have given you all the info you need, get er done.

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  5. #30
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    So,

    You did all your research,
    determined that you could save a ton doing this yourself,
    ordered everything online (which may void your warranty),
    installed it yourself (which definitely voids your warranty),
    decided that you suddenly wanted to move it,
    hired the absolute cheapest guy you could find,
    he came and half butchered it,
    AND

    now you're concerned that HE may have ruined it?

    Let me ask - how much have you saved on this DIY install now? If he didn't use a vacuum pump you WILL have problems later on. The RIGHT way to do it is to have someone come over ASAP, pull the charge, leak test it, vacuum it, weigh in the correct charge, and make sure you don't have any other issues. This method will cost you some money.

    Enjoy your savings sir.
    Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun.

    Statements made by me are strictly my opinions and do not reflect the opinions of my employer. I am not authorized to make any official statements on behalf of my employer.
    Any technical advice offered by me is for educational purposes only, all HVAC related repairs should only be attempted by qualified personnel.

  6. #31
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    What twisted sense of superiority do some of you yahoos glean from rubbing people's noses in their mistakes? Or maybe they're simply adventurous or practicing their right as free americans to entertain a little self sufficiency? And yes, maybe they want to try saving a little cash. What the hell is wrong with that?

    Whatever it is it's embarrassing. Like the annoying kids on the playground you want to slap around when you got caught trying to break the rules a little bit. Either help them make the best of it or mind your own business already. The DIY rules are for liability's sake and so no one gets hurt. They are not a license to ridicule people.

    Grow the F$%k up.
    Is the Religious Right to blame for Christianity's decline?

    They argued that, as the Religious Right became increasingly visible and militant, it became associated with Christianity itself. And if being a Christian meant being associated with the likes of Jerry Falwell, many people—especially political moderates and liberals—decided to simply stop identifying as Christians altogether.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.c...nitys-decline/

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  8. #32
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    eh, maybe Doug's having a bad day. But he sure did say what every pro thinks sometimes!

  9. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurtinhvac View Post
    What twisted sense of superiority do some of you yahoos glean from rubbing people's noses in their mistakes? Or maybe they're simply adventurous or practicing their right as free americans to entertain a little self sufficiency? And yes, maybe they want to try saving a little cash. What the hell is wrong with that?
    It's certainly your right to buy your own supplies and do whatever you want with them. It's another thing when you bypass the professionals to save money, then have the gall to ask them for help after you mess it up. It's not a matter of superiority - Lord knows I butchered a lot of units my first year or two in the field - it's a sense of tact. I feel it's tactless to come here and ask for help from the very people you don't want to hire because they charge too much.

    Would you attempt your own engine replacement in a car and then push it to a local shop so they can tell you why it won't run, so you can then push it home and try to fix it? No. Rational, thinking people realize, "Hey, this is a project that's over my head, I need to hire someone".

    Whatever it is it's embarrassing. Like the annoying kids on the playground you want to slap around when you got caught trying to break the rules a little bit. Either help them make the best of it or mind your own business already. The DIY rules are for liability's sake and so no one gets hurt. They are not a license to ridicule people.

    Grow the F$%k up.
    You can rest easy at night knowing that you never need to be embarrassed for me. I don't feel it's embarrassing to call someone out when they clearly need to be learning a life lesson here.
    Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun.

    Statements made by me are strictly my opinions and do not reflect the opinions of my employer. I am not authorized to make any official statements on behalf of my employer.
    Any technical advice offered by me is for educational purposes only, all HVAC related repairs should only be attempted by qualified personnel.

  10. #34
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    I always say "Check the manual" If the tech didn't follow the manufactures installation instructions then you SHOULD be concerned. NO vacuum pump, and the fittings likely were supposed to be flared, not brazed. Sounds like a very bad install

  11. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougfamous View Post
    It's certainly your right to buy your own supplies and do whatever you want with them. It's another thing when you bypass the professionals to save money, then have the gall to ask them for help after you mess it up. It's not a matter of superiority - Lord knows I butchered a lot of units my first year or two in the field - it's a sense of tact. I feel it's tactless to come here and ask for help from the very people you don't want to hire because they charge too much.

    Would you attempt your own engine replacement in a car and then push it to a local shop so they can tell you why it won't run, so you can then push it home and try to fix it? No. Rational, thinking people realize, "Hey, this is a project that's over my head, I need to hire someone".



    You can rest easy at night knowing that you never need to be embarrassed for me. I don't feel it's embarrassing to call someone out when they clearly need to be learning a life lesson here.
    Clearly it is some weird, misplaced, immature superiority issue if you feel the need to berate them. The world is becoming more DIY with each passing year. "You can do it, we can help." I am a DIY whenever I can get away with it and I will certainly go to a website and ask for help if I run into trouble. And I generally get the help I need as many sites do not have liability concerns as this one does.

    Again, the anti DIY rules exist to protect the site from liability and the equipment owners from harm. They were not created to indulge some bizarre, self proclaimed "life lesson" campaign.

    I'm not the least bit concerned about your embarrassment...were it even possible for a guy with a Beavis and Butthead avatar.
    Is the Religious Right to blame for Christianity's decline?

    They argued that, as the Religious Right became increasingly visible and militant, it became associated with Christianity itself. And if being a Christian meant being associated with the likes of Jerry Falwell, many people—especially political moderates and liberals—decided to simply stop identifying as Christians altogether.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.c...nitys-decline/

  12. #36
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    There is a more than 1 of these type of threads, that should be done about now .We have given sound advice , they keep dragging on, with no end in site.

  13. #37
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    Come on guys, I don't think any of us are against DIY. No reason to get into a pissing contest here. The OP is gone to fix the problem on his own. We offered advice, he can take what he wants and go on about his life. He hasn't been on for days.
    I can see where Doug would get upset. For example, I do a lot of my own vehicle repairs. I do my research, make sure I have the correct tools and supplies, and do what needs done. Its frustrating when DIYers think this is some walk in the park, wind up making a mess of the equipment then come and ask professionals their advice on how they should fix the equipment.
    I think we can all agree here that he most likely hired cheap labor to finish the install, even hacks use vacuum pumps most of the time.
    Best of luck to the OP, but next time do your homework before ordering that equipment or picking up a tool.
    Its just like the old saying goes "measure twice and cut once".
    “I haven’t failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” - Thomas Edison

    “It’s not whether you get knocked down, it’s whether you get up.” - Vince Lombardi

    "In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics" - Homer Simpson

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  15. #38
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    I will skip the histrionics on both sides of this and add one comment. I've already been censured for telling people what I thought of the dangerous and wasteful nature of DIY, I will not revisit that here. What is the expression about being your own lawyer? I forget the exact language.

    Mini-spilts are more sensitive than conventional systems to refrigerant issues, not less. Which is to say that screwing up that part of the install is pretty much guaranteed to produce problems as others have said. I echo everything else said about 410a, moisture and other non-condensables.

    If you want to save the system you have, get ready to write big checks and not have any real guaranty that you will come out ok. Call it a roll of the dice. Not saying it can't happen, just that it's easier said than done. Cleanup is a royal pain when done right. draining the oil, multiple filter changes on separate trips, new refrigerant....

    The other option is to replace the system with a properly designed and installed one from a contractor that will stand behind their work.

    Any cheap solution presented to you is unlikely to have long term success. Sorry, but that's the truth.
    Last edited by darctangent; 03-07-2015 at 12:06 PM.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us.


    Two pressures, four temperatures = SUCCESS!


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