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  1. #14
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    Jan 2016
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    I am lucky enough to be named in several patents, and i agree with this post entirely. One extra comment from experience is that a provisional patent is often more powerful than the actual issued patent. This is because nothing is set in stone yet so competition does not know how to 'work around' your wording of the patent and exploit it. Bottom line is that a patent is only as good if it is enforceable AND if you are perceived as someone / company who is willing to enforce it.

    Also, i think that it is important to point out that patent laws have recently changed and it is basically described as 'first to file' now. It used to be if you had prior art or some proof, you could potentially overturn someone's patent if determined to. Now it is basically first come first serve. Mailing things to yourself with a post date no longer flies.

  2. #15
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    Everything said is soo true.
    My wife's uncle (an A/C guy from Ruston L.A, home of Duck Dynasty) invented the first grabbit. He was in the shop with a piece of conduit and banding wire late one evening when he came up with it. He got a pattern and hire a couple of women to put them together in a small metal building. He sold enough to pay the bills until the highway department of Utah started buying them. The rest is history. He told me he closed the business the last couple years of the patent because he was spending all his profits on lawyers fighting patent infringes.
    Life is too short, Behappy!
    TFMM

  3. #16
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    Mar 2007
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    Where the grass is green and the girls are pretty
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    Mountain Man????

    J/K

  4. #17
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    Feb 2006
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    Float'N Vally, MS
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsiceman View Post
    Mountain Man????

    J/K
    I have only seen a couple of the shows and THAT happen to be one of them.
    No, Uncle Curly (he was bald) died some years back.
    But he would have fit right in with the show......
    Life is too short, Behappy!
    TFMM

  5. #18
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    May 2017
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    On the wide Missouri
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    It can cost thousands. You should hire a patent lawyer who specializes in patents and knows all the procedures. This is what holds me up on my 'ladder to heaven'.

  6. #19
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    Jul 2016
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    Georgetown, Tex.
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    Patents are one part of a business strategy, to achieve and maintain a sustainable competitive advantage. I've been a patent practitioner since 1993, and have seen many inventors make money on their inventions. Essentially, one would not take patent advice from an AC tech, any more than they'd take tech advice on an AC system from a patent lawyer. As always, every case is different and its best to seek professional assistance. Many good ideas are re-invented by people thinking they're the first, and often are not. On the other hand, I've had the opportunity to work on some pretty amazing tech, even in the HVAC area. Its basically, physical chemistry, everything relating to Joule-Thomson cooling, the Linde refrigerator, basic principles of enthalpy and entropy, its P-chem. Plus a few relays and some high voltage circuits. Probably the best thing an inventor can do is keep their mouth shut until they've spoken with a patent professional. I've seen a lot of inventors lose their rights, and this is especially true since we went to a first inventor to file system. I recently acquired a Goodman CLK49-1, runs perfectly, 4 ton, blows cold. Cleaned the coil and after rinsing, the temp of the liquid line dropped dramatically from the cooling effect of the evaporating water. Years ago, I put together a misting manifold all around a Rheem unit I have, to disperse water onto the coils. I was only able to measure a 1 degree difference at the duct, but question that since 1 degree could be due also to instrument error. So, I'm pondering in a custom system, have the condensor coil submerged in a pool. Has anyone marketed a pool water heater that uses an AC condenser coil as its heat source, drawing heat out of the residential dwelling ? There's all sorts of tech advancement opportunities in HVAC field, but don't expect to make $$ fast, one big hurdle is regulatory issues, UL ratings, etc. I think one area you all might find fruitful is in the area of inventing new tools. If you think about it, it should be possible to make a device that can read subcooling and superheat at the same time, without needing to connect a pressure gauge anywhere...... using bluetooth, that might be profitable. Stuff like that is where you might find the most success, not in new systems.

  7. #20
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    Apr 2007
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    Thread Starter
    Has anyone marketed a pool water heater that uses an AC condenser coil as its heat source, drawing heat out of the residential dwelling ?

    Very clever Idea!

    If you think about it, it should be possible to make a device that can read subcooling and superheat at the same time

    There are some gauges on the market that are doing that now.

    read subcooling and superheat at the same time, without needing to connect a pressure gauge

    I'd have to say 'not possible'.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    “They can’t do anything about it unless they start shooting people, and presumably they won’t do that.” Protester & confirmed idiot.

    "I am not here to rescue you, I am bringing you along for emergency rations" Quark.

    "This is me, I'm not at home. If you'd like to reach me, leave me alone." Sherl Crow

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

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  9. #21
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    Jul 2016
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    Georgetown, Tex.
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    Somebody's got to be doing the pool thing, probably corrosion becomes an issue with submerged coils but still, if one can precisely control the temp of the liquid refrigerant prior to delivery to the evaporator, what more can one ask for ?

  10. #22
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    Apr 2008
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    Tucson, AZ
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    Now I'm studying how to make proper drawings and use the correct words. I intend to get a provisional patent, which will last 1 year. Then I will offer the idea to a few companies. If they don't buy it, say it's already invented or say it is stupid , I'll just make the thing for friends. I won't sell it myself because of liability and taxes. I have already given a few out at work for guys to test; which I know is a foolish risk because someone may steal the idea. Such is life. China would steal it anyway if its' good. So, I'll risk a $1000 for a, so-so, provisional patent and learn a lot. I have learned about polymers and steel, wires and molds, all kinds of stuff, bought tools and tried crazy configurations. I have already profited.

  11. #23
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    Jul 2016
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    Georgetown, Tex.
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    I've seen this many many times. Its not just the "correct words", but rather, how they're used and arranged. One can choose the right notes for a song, but their effectiveness as music depends on their proper arrangement and timing. I think what you're up against mostly are 35 USC 112 requirements for enablement, sufficiency of disclosure, and the "written description requirement". Searching for articles or case law on those topics will give you more reading material, if your intent is to learn. The drawings requirements for a provisional application are relaxed, and there is no such thing as a "provisional patent". One problem which is easy to have, is to make an incomplete disclosure, and rely on your filing date as "covering" what you later reveal to others. If the disclosure is insufficient, the provisional application can be literally, worthless. Provisional applications have fewer requirements, but they're held to the same strict standards as a non-provisional, or regular application. They are definitely not a substitute in law, that enables scant disclosures to become sufficient ones. My opinion, the right way to do it is to have spent a little more to truly secure any valuable IP you may have generated, and the laws are so complex its literally impossible for an inventor to write an adequate disclosure. You might want to also check your disclosure to others to see if you've statutorily barred any rights, and also what might be considered as a public use, the pertinent statute is 35 USC 102, definitely worth a read. I leave you with this quote from John Ruskin:


    "It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When
    you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay
    too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you
    bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The
    common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a
    lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well
    to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will
    have enough to pay for something better.”

    Good luck 1

  12. #24
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    Sep 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Whewell View Post
    Somebody's got to be doing the pool thing, probably corrosion becomes an issue with submerged coils but still, if one can precisely control the temp of the liquid refrigerant prior to delivery to the evaporator, what more can one ask for ?
    Years ago... I remember someone at this forum... (in the PRO section)
    Cobbled together an arrangement to exhaust the heat from his house into his backyard pool...
    If I remember, he used the HXE (heat exchanger) from a geo-thermal unit.
    I think he had to fiddle with it for a bit... but it DID work.

    I do know there are conventional air to water HP's that are designed to heat pools... they are cheaper to run than gas pool heaters... when the outdoor temps are moderate (Springtime... during the heat of the day... to get the pool up to temp sooner).
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Your comfort, Your way, Everyday!

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  14. #25
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    Jul 2016
    Location
    Georgetown, Tex.
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    I like thinking of things like this. Figure also, the pool itself can be a heat reservoir from which to heat the home, within a limited temperature range. I think you get more eficient mass transfer of heat btw liquid (water) at the heat exchanger, versus gas (air). eliminate the need for the condensor fan, instead use convection and maybe a small circulating pump.

    We had an oil-fired boiler in the basement of our first house, it used circulating baseboard water heat method. I always wanted to throw the furnace away, and in its place put an Oldsmobile 350 V8 diesel, and automated controls. Basically, the circulating baseboard heat would be powered by the water pump on the engine, and a diesel can run on home heating oil. Also, wanted to hook up a transmission to it, having a generator at the output shaft. So basically, heat your house using diesel, and have an emergency generator as a bonus always on standby. The teachers all told me that most of the energy of burning a fuel in a car goes to "waste heat". So, why waste it ? Instead, use it. Plus in addition to the circulating engine coolant in the baseboard radiators, the whole basement would heat up anyway just because theres a motor present. Could also use the electricity from the generator to power some electric heaters too. When the system breaks down, just go to the auto parts store......

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  16. #26
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    Dec 2011
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    Twin Cities Minnesota
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    Heard a talk show on subject years back. They said"ask your patent company rep,for references". The End

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