Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 40
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    26
    Post Likes

    TXV Failures in relation to poor copper manufacturing practices

    I have been talking with friends around the State and TXVs are failing at a rate that we have never seen before through out several brands of equipment.

    The rumour is that it is caused by inferior copper manufacturing practices in china, the copper is not refrigerant grade due to poor copper recycling practices and is leaching oils into the system and shutting down TXV's.

    Anyone else heard the same?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3
    Post Likes
    I live in St. Louis and have replaced 3 in the last 2 weeks. this is called the frozen coil syndrome and our office has been contacted by several manf. And there saying its a third party group who supply the oil for the compressors and that they changed the rust inhibitors they were using and now it's causing a "waxing" effect in the metering device. I was trying to post some of the links to my email but still haven't figured that out yet.....maybe I'll just copy and paste....Good luck and be prepared to change many out!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3
    Post Likes
    Here's what I was able to copy. This is from Koch Aire.

    Carrier has made significant progress in determining the root cause of the TXV issue described in the previous updates to this service bulletin. At this point, our testing indicates that the key issue is a change made to a rust inhibitor by a sub-tier supplier. We are in close contact with this supplier, which has since reverted back to using the previous rust inhibitor.
    Now that we have identified the substance that we believe is causing the issue, we have begun work to develop more efficient field service remedies. We will publish any updates to the field service recommendations as they become available.
    In the interim, continue to use the procedures detailed in this field service bulletin. Our testing confirms that these actions are effective to address the TXV high superheat issue.
    PRODUCT CATEGORY: Residential Furnace Coils
    MODELS AFFECTED: CNPHP(24,30,31)17AL
    CNPV(P,U)(24,30,31)(14,17)AL CSPHP(24,30)12AL
    Effective immediately for serial number range:
    The verification of affected date codes prior to week 33 of 2014 is still ongoing. If you have a unit with a TXV Super Heat issue outside of this date range (week 48 of 2013 through week 33 of 2014),
    please contact your DSM for consideration.
    SITUATION:
    Ongoing testing and reports from the field indicate that 2 and 2.5 ton Thermostatic Expansion Valves (TXV) currently used in the above listed furnace coil products may not maintain the correct Super Heat (SH) in certain situations.
    The end result can be a lack of cooling for the homeowner due to a frozen furnace coil and this has been diagnosed in the field by high SH and low suction pressures measured at the outdoor unit. Internal and field testing have confirmed that this is a start-up only issue and not caused by the TXV or furnace coil. The TXV is acting as a filter and is capturing a “sticky” substance, which is causing the TXV to operate improperly. Internal testing has confirmed that replacing a TXV after a field failure resolves the issue in a high percentage of cases. Replacing the factory installed TXV at the time

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    26
    Post Likes
    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth B Davis View Post
    I live in St. Louis and have replaced 3 in the last 2 weeks. this is called the frozen coil syndrome and our office has been contacted by several manuf. And there saying its a third party group who supply the oil for the compressors and that they changed the rust inhibitors they were using and now it's causing a "waxing" effect in the metering device. I was trying to post some of the links to my email but still haven't figured that out yet.....maybe I'll just copy and paste....Good luck and be prepared to change many out!
    Thanks Ken, I heard something similar to that from a different manufacturer blaming Copeland compressors. As it stands now we have changed out dozens in new units, splits, packs, heatpumps, furnaces. seems about a week to two months we have to change TXV's. making us look very bad with homeowners over the last cpl of years.

    So lots of thanks for taking the time to post that. That was more detailed than what I have heard. BUT, in addition to that I have also heard that in China they are recycling copper to make tubing and they are not refining the copper to a very high standard and thats its adding to the problem.

    Sounds like the rust inhibitor is more likely.

    Thanks

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    16,674
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by sirbrit View Post
    Thanks Ken, I heard something similar to that from a different manufacturer blaming Copeland compressors. As it stands now we have changed out dozens in new units, splits, packs, heatpumps, furnaces. seems about a week to two months we have to change TXV's. making us look very bad with homeowners over the last cpl of years.

    So lots of thanks for taking the time to post that. That was more detailed than what I have heard. BUT, in addition to that I have also heard that in China they are recycling copper to make tubing and they are not refining the copper to a very high standard and thats its adding to the problem.

    Sounds like the rust inhibitor is more likely.

    Thanks
    The recycled Chinese copper is why all the evaporators leak after 2 years.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Phoenix Arizona
    Posts
    911
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by jtrammel View Post
    The recycled Chinese copper is why all the evaporators leak after 2 years.
    We switched to a cheaper line set about 2 years ago. We all noticed that it was way easier to kink then the old stuff. Switched back it was so bad. Wonder if it's related.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    39,170
    Post Likes
    I've heard a little bit of everything. Latest was an additive Copeland started putting in their compressors in May. But then why are Trane dealers having issues when they make their own compressors (except LG)? And LG is found in Bryant & Carrier units too unless TXVs aren't failing on those systems.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,449
    Post Likes
    why manufactury get cheaper copper product save tons of money,but our equipment price still keep going up each year???

  9. Dislikes kdean1 disliked this post
  10. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    16,674
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    I've heard a little bit of everything. Latest was an additive Copeland started putting in their compressors in May. But then why are Trane dealers having issues when they make their own compressors (except LG)? And LG is found in Bryant & Carrier units too unless TXVs aren't failing on those systems.
    I think it's happening in only the units with copelands and trane gets parts from copeland to make their compressors.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Lucas, Texas
    Posts
    94
    Post Likes
    We are having excessive TXV failures too. Carrier box coils. Not seeing in our fan coil installs. Anybody have a complete updated TSB on this?

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    2,319
    Post Likes
    Chinese junk is the demise of America.
    i have never seen so many new units leak in all my career.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    3
    Post Likes
    Update!!!!!!!!!

    So we had our company meeting this morning and apparently this problem is affecting all makes and models. The third party that's supplying the oil for EVERYONES compressors changed there rust inhibitor and this is causing the txv to become "gummed or waxed" up. There is an oil that you will add to the system (4oz up to 5 ton) that's suppose to chemically offset the issue. However, if this doesn't correct the issue you will have to replace the TXV... This info came straight out of the mouth of an engineer from Copland.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    2,319
    Post Likes
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth B Davis View Post
    Update!!!!!!!!!


    So we had our company meeting this morning and apparently this problem is affecting all makes and models. The third party that's supplying the oil for EVERYONES compressors changed there rust inhibitor and this is causing the txv to become "gummed or waxed" up. There is an oil that you will add to the system (4oz up to 5 ton) that's suppose to chemically offset the issue. However, if this doesn't correct the issue you will have to replace the TXV... This info came straight out of the mouth of an engineer from Copland.
    What a bunch of crap. This is costing homeowners and commercial owners a ton.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor MagazineThe place where Electrical professionals meet.