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  1. #14
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    May 2017
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    Figured it out

    Quote Originally Posted by ECtofix View Post
    WELL...with no answer, I have to assume that you "manually" manipulated those components using FUNCTION TEST mode while in the SERVICE LEVEL. The components you stated were checked are:
    • Drain valve (M7)
    • filling solenoid (Y1)
    • and M6 pump (Clean Jet pump)




    For CleanJet to work, the drain valve must be closed, the pump must run and...there must be water in the drain box.

    The water for the drain box does NOT come from the fill valve Y1. That valve only fills the steam generator.
    The water for the drain box comes from the quench valve Y2. If it doesn't work, then no water for the pump to pump.

    FWIW: The oven does a self-test before commencing a CareControl cycle - assuming you have that feature (version G SCC oven). In those ovens with CareControl, there is a SINGLE valve...and then a TRIPLE valve further up line. The water volume sensor (CDS) is in between those and can sense water flow through the triple valve ONLY.

    1. The FILL valve is part of that triple valve, so water called for by the fill valve would be sensed by the water volume sensor. The oven also confirms FILL valve operation by sensing renewed water level in the steam generator. As such, the oven confirms FILL valve operation during the self-test and would give you an entirely different error code if the fill valve didn't work.
    2. The QUENCH valve is NOT upstream of the CDS sensor, so the oven cannot directly sense water flow from it. Therefore the only hint that the QUENCH valve insn't working is when there's no water flow from the CleanJet pump into the main blower's wheel. Hence, code 25 is displayed.


    I suggest function testing the QUENCH valve...which is #9 of the FUNCTION TEST service level.
    Thanks so much for your help and sorry it took so long to get back to you.
    Yes, by manually manipulating I did mean via function test in the service menu.
    The quenching solenoid and pump work fine. It turned out to be the drain valve. Once I re-initialized it in the basic settings menu 1.2, it started working as intended. Thanks again for taking the time to help me out with this. Your a champ!

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  3. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    I have an SC101E
    two weeks ago I had to replace the main PCB as the unit would not go into diagnostic mode when putting dip switch 1 to on.
    Board replaced and unit fine.
    Day before yesterday, error code 20 (B1 internal cavity thermocouple) changed for a new one but when switching on goes into error code 20 again
    in diagnostics it shows thermocouple as 900-900 which indicates a faulty thermocouple. I suppose this can happen.
    However it seems as the supplier did not have the correct thermocouple (after a telephone call it seems they supplied me one for a one that is for a CM201E) to get me out of trouble.
    even though they look the same are they the same, or am I not doing something that I should?

  4. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    In a kitchen with my head stuck in an oven
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesla6518 View Post
    I have an SC101E
    two weeks ago I had to replace the main PCB as the unit would not go into diagnostic mode when putting dip switch 1 to on.
    Board replaced and unit fine.
    Day before yesterday, error code 20 (B1 internal cavity thermocouple) changed for a new one but when switching on goes into error code 20 again
    in diagnostics it shows thermocouple as 900-900 which indicates a faulty thermocouple. I suppose this can happen.
    However it seems as the supplier did not have the correct thermocouple (after a telephone call it seems they supplied me one for a one that is for a CM201E) to get me out of trouble.
    even though they look the same are they the same, or am I not doing something that I should?
    The only difference between the probe for the SCC101 and the CM201 is their length. Your part supplier merely sold you one that's long enough to use in floor-model ovens. Otherwise, it's the same probe - a type K thermocouple.

    As for it coming up with an error code and showing 900° in diagnostics? Without my being there to mess with it, my guess is either probe is open or there's a bad connection someplace. You said the board is new.

    The probe can easily be tested with most digital multimeters that have a temperature testing mode. Since those meters ALSO use a type K thermocouple, just set the meter to read temperature. When you connect your test leads to the probe, be sure to observe proper polarity. GREEN is + and WHITE is -. With this test, you should read ambient temperature on your meter.
    ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° °

    "You never know what others don't know." -

    If I can't laugh at myself...then I'll laugh at YOU! -

  5. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    Thanks ECtofix

    I thought they would all be the same, therefore I must have a bad connection on the board as I tried another probe that I had for our SCCWE101E and had the same results. I am surpised that i would have a bad connection as it is a new PCB and the probe connects directly to it.
    As the probe is part of the self test routine, would it seem reasonable to presume that everything would be board related and therefore my problem must be on the board.
    Would a software upgrade make any difference?

    Thanks once again for the prompt reply

  6. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    A software upgrade never hurts. Try it and see. It's a new board (you said so), therefore it likely needed upgraded after installation.

    If you've connected two known good probes (I hope you tested them as I'd previously explained) to X3 of the CPU board and it's STILL showing faulty a temperature, then it's sounding like it's due to a faulty board.

    Sorry.

    A few items to note:

    • After you replace the board (again), DO upgrade the software (again). A new board isn't upgraded when received from the factory. To verify this, the software version of the board can easily be displayed without using the DIP switch 1.
      For SCC ovens manufactured up to 2011, the latest (and last) software upgrade was to "04.01.11".

    • If you work on these things yourself, you might know about the dielectric grease Rational supplies for use on various connections throughout the unit (particularly the RJ45 connections). That grease should NEVER be used for ANY thermocouple (temperature probe) connections. I mention this because one of our guys did exactly that and it affected the temperature probe's accuracy.

    • JUST SO YOU KNOW: If you're an "in-house tech" or a do-it-yourselfer, you should NOT be expecting that board to be covered by the standard 90 day warranty you'd otherwise been granted had a factory-certified tech completed the previous repairs.
      Many parts vendors will deny any such warranty for ELECTRONIC components due to their fragility and the possiblity of blowing that component (especially control boards) from a potentially less-than-thorough diagnosis of OTHER components it's connected to.
    ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° °

    "You never know what others don't know." -

    If I can't laugh at myself...then I'll laugh at YOU! -

  7. #19
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    Oct 2008
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    I hope you can "debate" your way into acquiring a new board under that standard 90 day warranty, though. I know there are other ways you'd prefer to spend two-thousand dollars on.
    If I was you (and you're feeling confident enough), I'd also consult Rational's tech support about the matter. If they recognize you as having some technical prowess of the situation, they might grant you a new board for free.
    ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° °

    "You never know what others don't know." -

    If I can't laugh at myself...then I'll laugh at YOU! -

  8. #20
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    May 2006
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    Some times a software upgrade kills a unit to i deal with that at work all the time

  9. #21
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    Jan 2016
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    Thanks for inforo however just got worse

    Quote Originally Posted by ECtofix View Post
    I hope you can "debate" your way into acquiring a new board under that standard 90 day warranty, though. I know there are other ways you'd prefer to spend two-thousand dollars on.
    If I was you (and you're feeling confident enough), I'd also consult Rational's tech support about the matter. If they recognize you as having some technical prowess of the situation, they might grant you a new board for free.
    Hi thanks for the info on the grease but Rational are quite explicit about it's use, however a reminder is always welcome.
    Yep it just got worse not only do I have the error 20 (have tested thermocouples) it is now coming up with error 23 which is a short on the SSR for steam generation, I have tried to test them using the training manual method, however the error 20 stops everything. I suppose my best way is to remove them and test them on the bench as both SSR's supply both steam and hot air heating (dual relay but independent control) so no way to know which one is supposedly shorting, it must be a controls issue as there are no sensors for power, which leads me back to a faulty board again.
    Yep they cannot reject my qualifications, I hold a bachelors Degree in Electronics that is what is so frustrating about this if I had a PCB board schematic I could test it.
    once again thanks for your help.

  10. #22
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    Jun 2013
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    > I suppose my best way is to remove them and test them on the bench as both SSR's supply both steam
    > and hot air heating (dual relay but independent control) so no way to know which one is supposedly shorting,

    Hurgwash. You, as an degree-carrying type person should know how to test failing or failed SSRs.

    The simplest way is to idle the machine, put your amp-clamp on each wire to the heater(s) you are working on. If the SSR is stuck/shorted you will have amps flowing when there shouldn't be. End of test- replace *all* SSRs in the unit per Rational.

    The second way is several manufacturers spec a certain amount of voltage drop across a loaded SSR. When the voltage is over spec (.5 volts? I forget), the SSR is considered ready to fail, and you then, again, replace *all* the relays.

    > t must be a controls issue as there are no sensors for power

    If the computer senses an increasing temperature that continues after it has removed control voltage to the SSR, it knows the SSR has shorted.

    We were told to always have our update usb stick in place before turning on a new unit/board, period, then *always* re-do the self test.

    > Yep they cannot reject my qualifications

    If you are not a Rational certified tech, they get really pissed. Ask my former general manager, a great tech, but had never been to the school.

  11. #23
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    Jun 2013
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    > would not go into diagnostic mode when putting dip switch 1 to on

    Just for everyone's edification, the actual position of that slide switch doesn't matter, it's the change of position that matters when the unit is on.

    In other words, you can power up the unit with the switch "on", then after bootup slide to "off", and you can access your service menu.

  12. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadBozo2315 View Post
    > would not go into diagnostic mode when putting dip switch 1 to on

    Just for everyone's edification, the actual position of that slide switch doesn't matter, it's the change of position that matters when the unit is on.

    In other words, you can power up the unit with the switch "on", then after bootup slide to "off", and you can access your service menu.

    VERY much worth mentioning.

    Yes, the change in position of DIP switch 1 is recognized only after the unit is booted up and displaying the MY COOKING screen (the one with the cooking icons). If DIP switch 1 is ALREADY on when the oven boots up, it will not display the SERVICE LEVEL icon.

    Thank you, BadBozo.
    ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° ° °

    "You never know what others don't know." -

    If I can't laugh at myself...then I'll laugh at YOU! -

  13. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    Hi
    if you had read my post properly you would have seen that i cannot put the machine into idle, nor can I test the SSR's as you describe. The machine will not energise the contactor that supplies the SSR's due to the original Error 20.

    controls issue. as the machine has the error 20 no heating is applied, therefore how is the computer sensing that the SSR has shorted. As it seems you went to the rational school what did they say about the error 23 from a control point of view.

    I value constructive answers on this site and I believe the intention of passing on information to others benefits all, however your answers seem to ridicule me for having a degree

    The only part that I can take of any value is the part about the USB stick, which is not mentioned in any of the training manuals.

  14. #26
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    Jan 2016
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    yes I am aware of the need for the machine to be run up first . however it would not go into diagnostics mode

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