Moen vs delta

[ammoniadog]

Most people at plumbing wholesalers and big box stores think in inside diameter sizes, because this is how almost all pipe is sold, including most copper tubing such as Types M, L, and K. The tricky part is that even though most people think in inside diameter, some fittings such as flare nuts and compression fittings are typically listed by their outside diameter.

Refrigeration tubing is an exception to this rule. If you go to a refrigeration wholesaler to buy ACR copper pipe or fittings, they will always think in outside diameter.

A roll of 1/2" type L soft copper is the exact same size as a roll of 5/8" ACR copper. If you want flare or compressions fittings to fit on 1/2" type L soft copper, they need to be 5/8" fittings.

[shellkamp]

I'm not disagreeing with the outside diameters here.

If the inlet to the valve was for 5/8" nominally sized copper pipe, it will be sized for a 3/4" outside diameter pipe. No argument there.

It stands to reason that if the valve advertised 1/2" copper pipe inlet, that regardless of the actual outside diameter, which is actually 1/8" larger by definition, a 1/2" nominally sized pipe will fit into the fitting.

I understand there is no magic, but we're debating apples and oranges here.

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[HVAC_Marc]

a 5/8" compression fitting was actually designed to fit 1/2" pipe.

this is what the store clerk to you, right? you said it.

this is a TRUE statement if applied to copper pipe. a 5/8 inch ID compression fitting will properly fit a 1/2" OD copper pipe.

your valve is advertised as 1/2" CTS. a 1/2" CTS pipe will fit it. a 1/2" nominal pipe may NOT fit tightly. 'nominal' roughly means 80%.

how is it apples and oranges? it's 2 different measurement standards that equate to the same diameter.

[shellkamp]

Okay, here's where we're getting our signals crossed.

I went to the store and the store clerk told me that a valve which stated 5/8" I.D pipe was designed to fit on 1/2" pipe.

What you're saying is all true, but the store clerk was wrong in his statement to me, as proven by my attempting to put the ferrule on the 1/2" pipe at my house. It was, wait for it, approximately 1/8" too big!

Therefore, to say the store clerk was correct is a stretch. IF he were speaking about the particular ferrules and fittings that you were, then yes, he would be in fact correct. However, he fell victim to mixing up his measurement standards.





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[shellkamp]

It's like if the clerk told me a boulder weighs 2 tons, then i show him on the scale it weighs 12 tons, then he responds with "well if it were on the moon..."

A lot of "ifs" blew this way out of proportion.

Don't even start with a mass and gravity argument!

I bought the Moen faucet, be happy your team won.

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[HVAC_Marc]

Okay, here's where we're getting our signals crossed.

I went to the store and the store clerk told me that a valve which stated 5/8" I.D pipe was designed to fit on 1/2" pipe.

What you're saying is all true, but the store clerk was wrong in his statement to me, as proven by my attempting to put the ferrule on the 1/2" pipe at my house. It was, wait for it, approximately 1/8" too big!

Therefore, to say the store clerk was correct is a stretch. IF he were speaking about the particular ferrules and fittings that you were, then yes, he would be in fact correct. However, he fell victim to mixing up his measurement standards.

eh, you didnt say the clerk said a 5/8" ID valve would fit, you said a 5/8" compression fitting. had this been stated before we could have saved much server space on the site

[shellkamp]

Look at that, one vague comment leads to another and eventually we get into a whole big mess. I could kick myself for leaving out that particular detail.

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[HVAC_Marc]

no big deal...i've done it too what we think and what we type sometimes doesnt mesh.

[madhat]

I'd did not like my Moen Posi-Temps, and pulled them out. I put Moentrols in so I could adjust the flow. Also you could still get a cold water shock when the well pump kicked in with the Posi-Temp.

[shellkamp]

The moentrol does appear to be a superior valve according to the literature. It also mentions that you should operate the posi temp valve once a week to prevent issues with the mixing function of the cartridge.

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[madhat]

The moentrol does appear to be a superior valve according to the literature. It also mentions that you should operate the posi temp valve once a week to prevent issues with the mixing function of the cartridge.

LOL, with two teenage daughters, the valves weren't lacking in exercise.

[shellkamp]

LOL, with two teenage daughters, the valves weren't lacking in exercise.

Oh, I didn't mean that was your problem, I was just disappointed in reading that lack of use was a cause of failure after I just purchased the valve.

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[icesailor]

Reply to an old thread:

Symmons S96-1 or 2. All brass, bomb proof, easily repaired, easy to work on. Moen then Delta last by a long shot. Would put Kohler up ahead of Moen and Delta. Not ahead of Symmons.

[lentz]

1/2 Copper pipe is 5/8 Outside