PHI Cells

[mark beiser]

I'm sure they someone will claim their radiocatalyticionbarageNASAtechsupernucleiparticle blasterkillseverythingbutyoubutwecantproveit device will do what you want.
To back it up they will even quote a study where stuff was killed on stainless steel surfaces in an enclosed test chamber!

I have yet to see even one posting of anything but anecdotal stories in support of its effectiveness in real world situations.

[breathe easy]

There is an old saying: "Statistics never lie. But liars use statistics."

There is a new corollary to this saying: "Tests never lie. But liars use tests."

For example, I took another look at the Kansas State test on the RCI product and found that the chamber used for the tests is 49"X25"X30". That is a whopping 21 cubic feet. That means that the average HVAC system would replace the air in the chamber in 1.05 seconds.

In short, none of these results can be applied to real world applications. To do so is deceptive. You really need to have tests done in somewhat realistic conditions to have any validity for statements about the effectiveness of the product.

[genesis]

Mark you need to get a trade mark on this word . Kind of like photohydronazation cell . Get a TM on it and it makes it a real technology.(radiocatalyticionbarageNASAtechsupernu cleiparticle blasterkillseverythingbutyoubutwecantproveit device )

[ar4s1]

I call BS on the original photos too.

You guys are right! You got me! I had absolutely nothing better to do on a military deployment than to remove an entire evaporator and heat strip package so that I could install a new drain pan to convince a bunch of total strangers that this product works. I must have been a total dope to think that I could pull the wool over so many expert eyes. I raise my cup to you all.

[hvac_superman]

You guys are right! You got me! I had absolutely nothing better to do on a military deployment than to remove an entire evaporator and heat strip package so that I could install a new drain pan to convince a bunch of total strangers that this product works. I must have been a total dope to think that I could pull the wool over so many expert eyes. I raise my cup to you all.

You post total bull crap and expect us to believe it and then make us out to be the bad guy.

Look at the space between the pan and the insulation that you mounted your little miracle to, different size gap. Leads you to believe it is a different unit. Where did the pipe go that is in the way of the clean shot vs the shot of the dirty pan. The drain must be totally plugged up cause there isn't even a dimple or any indication of that drain hole. Don't make me count the coils of the heat strip, just take your lumps and don't try to BS us. Most of us have better things to do.

[ar4s1]

You post total bull crap and expect us to believe it and then make us out to be the bad guy.

Look at the space between the pan and the insulation that you mounted your little miracle to, different size gap. Leads you to believe it is a different unit. Where did the pipe go that is in the way of the clean shot vs the shot of the dirty pan. The drain must be totally plugged up cause there isn't even a dimple or any indication of that drain hole. Don't make me count the coils of the heat strip, just take your lumps and don't try to BS us. Most of us have better things to do.

Again superman, I bow to your greatness. All of the articles that you've all read and the word of mouth that you've gotten obviously out weighs what I've DONE with this product.

[hvac_superman]

Again superman, I bow to your greatness. All of the articles that you've all read and the word of mouth that you've gotten obviously out weighs what I've DONE with this product.

Tell you what. You take another photo of that clean evaporator. Get the camera on the exact angle so I can see that pipe and everything from the same angle. If that is the same evaporator I will be a big man and give you a true apology. If all you are going to do is write sarcastic little lines like I bow to your greatness then lets both just quit now.

[ar4s1]

Tell you what. You take another photo of that clean evaporator. Get the camera on the exact angle so I can see that pipe and everything from the same angle. If that is the same evaporator I will be a big man and give you a true apology. If all you are going to do is write sarcastic little lines like I bow to your greatness then lets both just quit now.

Unfortunately that testing was done over 2 years ago at a deployed location that no longer exists. Likewise the units being R22, have been scrapped. The AF is getting a jump on the Montreal Protocol ban. So if you want to take that as a win, be my guest.

I know what I accomplished during that testing as did my superiors who witnessed the same. The official report was filed with their endorsments. As for my sarcasm, you have outwardly and publicly called me a liar and decribed my work as BS. I'm sorry but I take exception to that. You can have all the skeptisism that you want but to insult me professionally like that was over the line. I had nothing personally or financially to gain by posting what I did so what would be the benefit in posting false or faked information?

[mbarson]

I recently began experimenting with a UV light appliance from RGF Environmental Group

We have seen these ADVERTISEMENTS before and don't fall for them (from MLM types). Your story seems to have changed since the first post. If the products worked that great and didn't have any undesirable by-products those of us in the business would be promoting them already.

[meBNme]

UPDATES Wanted!!

So, has anyone gathered any additional info?

My company offers the "Activ-tek" brand product. Has anyone done any tests with it?

Any customer feedback, personal experience etc.?


DOES ANYONE have any viable info or proof that this product does, or does not work?

[TalkingHead]

The "Activ-tek" brand product is owned by the people who bought EcoQuest.

http://greenevillesun.com/printstory/302332

[meBNme]

Thanks. Do you know of any customer or supplier feedback, additional testings etc.?

[bhahvac]

I am a fan of RGF products and have them in my own home and sell them. I keep a unit and brochures on my truck at all times.

There a million diiifferent marketing angles and 'he said - she said' on this stuff.

But you can get more ozone from sunlight or a standing next to copy machine.

Also D*sney has them on their cruise ships. And they ain't killed Mickey or Goofy yet....

Customers love them.

[alohaair]

Bob- you actually do not know in what capacity Disney has them on their cruise ships. RGF produces quite alot of products dealing with ozone production, especially in the water purification side - which ozone is very useful on a small scale. On the air side, I've seen portable Ecoquest, which owns RGF by the way, on cruise ships in the casinos. Do you know why they were placed in the casinos?

Because they produce ozone and ozone is great at oxidizing odors, voc's, etc. any odor in Parts Per Billion. Ozone is only effective at killing mold/virus/bacteria at high levels where it then becomes harmful to humans.

The reason why your customers love them and why they are still in business is because of their deceptive marketing AND because their product will definitely ELIMINATE alot of odors because of the 7" or 12" UV-V bulb they use. Homeowners think, hey if this takes care of my odors, it must be cleaning my air. Wrong assumption. It only takes care of odors. Try using the RGF product in a small room and see if you don't wake up with a headache or smell ozone buildup.

It's just not a risk I would want to take with my customers or business.

[breathe easy]

aa
Well said. These units produce significant ozone. I have used one of these "cells" in a small room and had substantial ozone build-up.

[breathe easy]

aa
Ecoquest does not own RGF. In fact RGF sued Ecoquest last year. I am not sure what for. Ecoquest was recently sold to the same people who bought the direct selling part of Electrolux.

[Beltit]

Hoping you're still around as your post is dated 2007. I tried the Activetek product hoping it would kill toxins coming into the house from neighbor's laundry fumes. I was recently diagnosed with chemical sensitivity and still trying to figure it out. I had it uninstalled after a week but the air it produced was awesome. There were several problems with it but the worst was it affected my nasal passages and I lost my voice. Now that it has been over a year I realize that while I had it I didn't experience any problems with the laundry fumes. After that I tried a Lennox HEPA filter system that did nothing. Since then I moved to an air tight home and the problem is way worse. Tried a non-ozone producing UV light that hasn't made a difference. Now thinking about having the Activetek reinstalled so I'm wondering if anything has changed on the effects of the ozone it produces since this thread started 7 years ago. As a chemically sensitive person I'm wondering which is worse, being sick all the time from neighbor's laundry as compared to whatever ozone might be produced in the home.

[freshaire]

ASHRAE has just released the Position Document on Filtration and Air Cleaning. It helps the industry understand Ozone and products that make claims of producing hydroperoxides and other Reactive Oxygen Species in the air. Pay special attention if you're offering ion generators, plasma generators, hydroperoxide or friendly oxidizer generators, or any other indoor air quality product that promotes throughout an occupied space.

[agriba]

I find this page doing research about "5 INCH PHI CELL" manufactured by RGF after speaking to sales representative in Australia of original equipment manufacturer using PHI CELL in a product. I receive demo product including PHI from OEM. I place in unsealed 300 m^2 room with OZONE measuring instrument. Unsafe ozone readings exceeding 500 parts per 1,000,000,000 which is the meters limit after 45 minutes. For reference, occupant-safe ozone reading under 50 parts per. Did not find manufacturer literature detailing this level of ozone emissions.

[breathe easy]

Wow! 500 parts per billion is huge. As you say, the acceptable limit indoors in 50ppb.

I will give you another experiment. Place a small bowl of lemon or pine scented cleaner in the room and do particle counts. The sub-micron particles will go sky-high. I have done it and the particle counts at 0.3um exceeded 10,000,000 per cubic foot in 45 minutes. The normal is about 1,000,000.

As you can see by the age of this thread, this discussion has gone on for a long time. But I think there is a new development. There is a clear relationship between higher PM2.5 (particles less than 2.5 microns in size) and adverse health effects. New research is showing that it is not just the size of the particle, but the type of particle that causes the health problems (mostly cardiovascular and respiratory). The new leading culprit is particles with high oxidative potential. In other words, particles that have been in reactions with reactive oxygen species such as ozone, hydroxyl radicals, peroxide, etc. - just the very things created by these so called "air cleaning devices."