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  1. #27
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    Both of these machines are 1/2 hp. Fluoromizer uses two motors. One for the compressor, one for fan.

    This is the condenser coil in a Fluoro-Tech FM3600 recover machine. (photo: myself)
    You can see how big it is from the background box.



    These are the two condensers for Appion G5 Twin (photo: replacement parts found on the web)


    These condensers are in sides like fish gills. As you can tell from the size of the machine itself, these are fairly small. The picture is not to scale.

    "molecular transformator" is nothin more than an extension to condenser to make up for inadequate condenser.

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICanHas View Post
    These condensers are in sides like fish gills. As you can tell from the size of the machine itself, these are fairly small. The picture is not to scale.

    "molecular transformator" is nothin more than an extension to condenser to make up for inadequate condenser.
    I agree with that totally. I was calling it by its name. It is nothing more than a copper coil in an aluminum cage.

    It helps though. I haven't used the unit you mention.

    Chase

  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICanHas View Post
    Both of these machines are 1/2 hp. Fluoromizer uses two motors. One for the compressor, one for fan.

    This is the condenser coil in a Fluoro-Tech FM3600 recover machine. (photo: myself)
    You can see how big it is from the background box.



    These are the two condensers for Appion G5 Twin (photo: replacement parts found on the web)


    These condensers are in sides like fish gills. As you can tell from the size of the machine itself, these are fairly small. The picture is not to scale.

    "molecular transformator" is nothin more than an extension to condenser to make up for inadequate condenser.
    Inadequate? LOL
    Do you have a side by side pic of the fan motor and blades for both these units if you are comparing?
    If you're trying to make some point with these pics why not show show them as part of the system?
    The coils seem to be matched to the fan by either unit.
    Big coil small fan
    Small coil big fan
    What's the difference?

  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackboy771 View Post
    i plan to buy the appion G5 i should be getting it this monday or tuesday... They're many pro's and con's for it, its gonna cost $1250 inc. Once i get to use it in the field i'll post up my thoughts
    The Appion G5 twin sells for $725 on Amazon and that's high for what I've priced them at supply house. Sounds like you're getting major
    screwed over at $1250.
    As for recovery rate, keeping the tank cool helps a lot. It seems no recovery machine does a decent job subcooling the refrigerant before it goes into the recovery cylinder.
    I made a subcooler out of the coil and fan off an old Roger unit; cools the liquid to ambient before going into the cylinder; hastens MY recovery times; even from vapor.


    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    JUST A LITTLE CLOSER AND THE LITTER BOX IS ALL MINE!

  5. #31
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    Outside the US maybe.
    Another variable about a comparison like this using the same refrigerant and moving from one machine to the next is the temp will continue to rise throughout the testing changing times

  6. #32
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    The function of the fan is limited to bringing the fins as close as possible to ambient air temperature. Even if the fan can bring all the fins to within 1/2deg of ambient, the surface area of refrigerant to copper, copper to fin are limiting factors to heat exchange.

    Thinner the tube, the more surface area to volume you have. You'll find that many newer condensing units use micro-channel coil in order to increase the refrigerant-to-copper/aluminum surface area.

  7. #33
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    They are probably a third the size too and air screams through them.

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsiceman View Post
    They are probably a third the size too and air screams through them.
    Even if you had an ideal heat transfer from outside of small condeners that lowers the copper tube OD to ambient, there's still the limitation of inner surface to refrigerant heat transfer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Appion-ChrisP View Post
    The G1Single has greater liquid transfer rates due to fewer restrictions... no piping or manifold in the machine to pump through. For most recovery jobs, however, the majority of the time is spent recovery vapor, so the JOB TIME will be shorter using the G5Twin. Also, using 3/8" hoses and any cooling efforts on the recovery cylinder will greatly increase the G5Twin's liquid speed, well over the rates that were achieved in the lab tests (because lab tests prevent such external efforts, since that would not be an "even playing field").

    While the cooling fan and heatsink on the G1Single does do a pretty good job cooling the vapor for small jobs (PTACs, splits, appliances), the condensers on the G5Twin are still better from a cooling perspective. From the jobs you are describing, you would likely be happier with the G5Twin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Appion G5 Twin manual page 8
    Recover into the Liquid Port of the Recovery Cylinder for faster recovery.
    OPTIONAL: To reduce the effect of high back pressure at the end of the recovery process, recover into the Vapor Port instead (may increase recovery times).
    As long as the cylinder is kept out of the sun, it would not get warmer than ambient from sources external to tank and the pressure difference is only used to push liquefied refrigerant into a big receiver. (I would define it as with enough sub cooling to avoid flash boiling) it wouldn't depend on the thermal mass of recovery tank and the contents). Recovery tank is nothing more than a receiver with LLSV closed and system going into pump down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Appion G5 Twin manual, 2006 edition, P4
    For best results, use the tank cooling method to lower the head pressure on the recovery tank to
    get the deepest final vacuum.
    G5 is meant to be more liquid intake resistant than some other machines. Based on this statement in the manual, I am guessing that it uses a comparatively lower compression ratio piston with larger TDC clearance in order to reduce the chance of hydro-locking or the piston slamming into liquid and blowing out the cylinder or crushing the piston rod.


    This is my current understanding of Appion G5 Twin, Stinger, etc type machines to larger machines:


  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMETH View Post
    The Appion G5 twin sells for $725 on Amazon and that's high for what I've priced them at supply house. Sounds like you're getting major
    screwed over at $1250.
    As for recovery rate, keeping the tank cool helps a lot. It seems no recovery machine does a decent job subcooling the refrigerant before it goes into the recovery cylinder.
    I made a subcooler out of the coil and fan off an old Roger unit; cools the liquid to ambient before going into the cylinder; hastens MY recovery times; even from vapor.


    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


    well what country are u sourcing that information from, in australia actrol is the only supplier that can get appions, and sure i could of bought it online then fiddled with the electricals to convert it to aust electrics....

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackboy771 View Post
    well what country are u sourcing that information from, in australia actrol is the only supplier that can get appions, and sure i could of bought it online then fiddled with the electricals to convert it to aust electrics....
    European and Asian market models rated for 220-240v would work. Since receptacles vary so much between countries that use these voltages, many IEC models have an IEC receptacle (desktop PC power cord). If not, you'll have to replace the plug-end.

    IP/Brand Management and marketing people call that piracy and hate it when you do it and usually won't honor warranty on such items. You'll need a cumbersome transformer or replace the motor(I am sure it is costly) if you get a 120v unit.

  11. #37
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    yeah i mean i just bit the bullet and just spent the $1200, like yeah its costly.... but its a quality unit im happy with it, and as mentioned i do need to cool the bottles down when reclaiming and i might bit the bullet again and buy the CPS Molecular Transformator

  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackboy771 View Post
    well what country are u sourcing that information from, in australia actrol is the only supplier that can get appions, and sure i could of bought it online then fiddled with the electricals to convert it to aust electrics....
    Mea culpa. Didn't know you were in Australia. The extra $600 must be for shipping from Colorado.
    JUST A LITTLE CLOSER AND THE LITTER BOX IS ALL MINE!

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICanHas View Post
    Even if you had an ideal heat transfer from outside of small condeners that lowers the copper tube OD to ambient, there's still the limitation of inner surface to refrigerant heat transfer.
    From the pictures you posted it sure looks like Appion uses a larger OD tubing in the coil vs the tubing in and out unlike the other coil you show.

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