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  1. #14
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    Can somebody help me with this one? I have no idea how switching to a heavy 68/300POE oil could've solved an oil pump priming problem? Did DB recommend using heavy oil back in the day? Of course the only lit I can find are from reman company's and there's nothing anywheres to suggest that

  2. #15
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    What is the application for this compressor?

    PHM
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave1234 View Post
    Can somebody help me with this one? I have no idea how switching to a heavy 68/300POE oil could've solved an oil pump priming problem? Did DB recommend using heavy oil back in the day? Of course the only lit I can find are from reman company's and there's nothing anywheres to suggest that
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  3. #16
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    Comfort cooling. Uses MO49 plus (r437). Quite a bit of elevation of piping. I think at least 4-5 floors seperate comp from AHU. If they were gonna decide to use POE Heavy or not why not run 134 for littlerly a fraction of the cost???

  4. #17
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    Hey! Maybe they switched to POE to clean all the crap out of the oil pump's reversing ring? <g>

    But as for the weight. Heavier compressor oil, such as 500 SUS, or more commonly; 300 SUS lubricates the compressor better. But . . . . in refrigeration that is not all we must be concerned with. One of the other things is . . . . oil return. And the colder the evaporator and suction line - the thicker the oil becomes and the slower the oil return process is.

    For high temp (A/C) use the compressor oil should have been 300 SUS all along. The switch down to 150 SUS tends to happen as the SST temp gets to about 20 or so. It provides less lubrication - but that's a required compromise in order to have adequate oil return.

    Why R-437 ? Do they already stock it and they don't keep R-134 aboard? That would be my first guess. R-134 would have been my first choice.

    Why are they running "R-12" type systems for air conditioning anyway?

    PHM
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave1234 View Post
    Comfort cooling. Uses MO49 plus (r437). Quite a bit of elevation of piping. I think at least 4-5 floors seperate comp from AHU. If they were gonna decide to use POE Heavy or not why not run 134 for littlerly a fraction of the cost???
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  5. #18
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    I have no idea but they have 2 identical and they where both r12- I believe the original data tag was on it and it said R12. I've actually seen this before the 12 on DX comfort cooling- in my short career I've very rarely seen anything other then 150 on split DX systems. Don't know why. Read a lot of IOMS and can't think of a single time where a 150 wasn't the recommended lube, I think somebody wanted to make a sale ran the 437. Not the cheapest stuff

  6. #19
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    Then again maybe OEMS always recommended 3GS on field piped 22 systems because of the myth that oil always magically returns with R22

  7. #20
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    Copeland and Carlyle semi hermetics require 150 oil. Carrier open drives are split, some require 150 and some 300. As PHM says, it often depends on the application to ensure good oil return. D/B compressors if I remember correctly were 150 on the small D/B metics but 300 on the larger big four models. What model compressor do you have? I will look into it but I am off on vacation for a week so my answer won't be soon. In the old days the Westinghouse CLS models used an oil called "Red Band", and it was REALLY thick, probably 500. There was a Masonic Temple with a 16 cylinder Westinghouse still operating on R12 A/C until around 10 years ago, when they hired a contractor to convert it to a new less expensive refrigerant. They also changed the oil to a 150 weight and the compressor ran for about 10 days then failed. The thin oil couldn't support the weight of the massive crankshaft in the bearings and the rotor shifted and contacted the motor which then shorted out and blew the terminals out of the casting. We were called to fix it, but the casting was damaged beyond repair and the whole thing was scrapped. The oil viscosity IS IMPORTANT.

  8. #21
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    But this is still application-related. D/B Metics were likelier refrigeration than comfort cooling - which is why they came with 150 oil.

    PHM
    -------



    Quote Originally Posted by remanworld View Post
    Copeland and Carlyle semi hermetics require 150 oil. Carrier open drives are split, some require 150 and some 300. As PHM says, it often depends on the application to ensure good oil return. D/B compressors if I remember correctly were 150 on the small D/B metics but 300 on the larger big four models. What model compressor do you have? I will look into it but I am off on vacation for a week so my answer won't be soon. In the old days the Westinghouse CLS models used an oil called "Red Band", and it was REALLY thick, probably 500. There was a Masonic Temple with a 16 cylinder Westinghouse still operating on R12 A/C until around 10 years ago, when they hired a contractor to convert it to a new less expensive refrigerant. They also changed the oil to a 150 weight and the compressor ran for about 10 days then failed. The thin oil couldn't support the weight of the massive crankshaft in the bearings and the rotor shifted and contacted the motor which then shorted out and blew the terminals out of the casting. We were called to fix it, but the casting was damaged beyond repair and the whole thing was scrapped. The oil viscosity IS IMPORTANT.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  9. #22
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    Yes but I can see the oil return problems but to just flat stop pumping oil from being to light ?? Have a hard time seeing that and all oil movement in the site glass would just stop

  10. #23
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    I know what you mean: I always hate a half or non answer too. But I can't think of a single logical reason for what you describe to happen on a sometimes-self-correcting basis. Sorry; I'm out of ideas.

    PHM
    -----



    Quote Originally Posted by dave1234 View Post
    Yes but I can see the oil return problems but to just flat stop pumping oil from being to light ?? Have a hard time seeing that and all oil movement in the site glass would just stop
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    I know what you mean: I always hate a half or non answer too. But I can't think of a single logical reason for what you describe to happen on a sometimes-self-correcting basis. Sorry; I'm out of ideas.

    PHM
    -----
    On the contrary this has all been very helpful. Maybe I'm being to liberal and even a touch cynical when I say the switch "solved" the problem. All I did was replace the service valves open request as the packing was as tight as she goes and still hemoroged. Then at start up had this problem. Runs for about 20 minutes then bam flat- or was it just enough for the bypass timer to time out? Can't remember. Point is another company way way down another port while she was laid up tool a crack at it and the crew n Cheif swear it has t happened yet. I may have said this earlier but I guess it had happened before. Would mixing oil some cause this???? The thing is the crew are all mechanics and nobody is afraid to add oil. I wish I knew how to load photos from iPhone into thread- I filled an entire 5 gallon bucket out of the bottom of receiver- straight oil- no foam. Then the problem seemed to have worsened and gotten persistent??? Coincidence???No I do not have an oil refractometer. Only thing I can think of is reman shipped it out with POE and I know it was MO- hence the goofy 437. Still don't see how mixed oil could cause the vapor lock or whatever.

  12. #25
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    I said a mouthful there forgot to squeeze in as it just reminded me. Anyone ever or can you re-pack run of the mill common mueller service valves?

  13. #26
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    Something you may wish to keep in your back pocket for next time is the awareness that the service valves can be re-packed in place for almost nothing. Just front seat and take the pressure off the compressor body before removing the packing nuts.

    Mixed oils have never caused a problem for me. I cannot imagine how they would have in your case. I routinely add some POE to a mineral oil system when the oil cannot be changed easily.

    PHM
    --------



    Quote Originally Posted by dave1234 View Post
    On the contrary this has all been very helpful. Maybe I'm being to liberal and even a touch cynical when I say the switch "solved" the problem. All I did was replace the service valves open request as the packing was as tight as she goes and still hemoroged. Then at start up had this problem. Runs for about 20 minutes then bam flat- or was it just enough for the bypass timer to time out? Can't remember. Point is another company way way down another port while she was laid up tool a crack at it and the crew n Cheif swear it has t happened yet. I may have said this earlier but I guess it had happened before. Would mixing oil some cause this???? The thing is the crew are all mechanics and nobody is afraid to add oil. I wish I knew how to load photos from iPhone into thread- I filled an entire 5 gallon bucket out of the bottom of receiver- straight oil- no foam. Then the problem seemed to have worsened and gotten persistent??? Coincidence???No I do not have an oil refractometer. Only thing I can think of is reman shipped it out with POE and I know it was MO- hence the goofy 437. Still don't see how mixed oil could cause the vapor lock or whatever.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

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