Trane Centravac Overhaul

[whiteside2831]

I have a customer that has 2 CVHE050's it has the two stage economizer I think that's the CVHE. They were installed in the mid 90's and have not been overhauled. I just did a leak inspection and found 20+ leaks a piece. Auto purger is running 30+ minutes ever 24. We had Trane come in to quote a repair and it was more then they anticipated. I've been looking into doing the work myself. The motor alone is in the 10's of thousands. They are running normal amperage and no excessive heat or noise. I want to try and overhaul it with leaving the old motor replace the volut/shell and gaskets. Has anyone on here performed this task and have a parts list and an approximate time frame to complete this. I cannot find a manual with overhaul layout and the local Trane supplier found some things but wasn't extremely helpful. Any input would be extremely helpful.


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[RACMT]

I have two 400 ton Trane Centravac Chillers, I have all the maintenance manuals and break down manuals, with pressure readings. This system was installed in the late 50s early 60s. Do you think this will help? I would have to scan them as the manuals are old school but very in depth.

[Healey Nut]

Have you even considered the amount of work involved and the specialty tools/rigging equipment you need to overhaul a Centravac .
Do you have the nessacary recovery equipment to even remove the refrigerant .
That chiller cost a whole pile of $'s , have you considered what /who is responsible if you do it wrong and you push the start button and it scrambles ??
I am in the process of completing my 70th teardown and I still get butterflies and parts of me still pucker a little when I push the start button for the first time after completion .
This isnt a job that someone with a pick up truck and set of reefer gauges should even consider attempting .JMHO

[RACMT]

Its R11, 4,160 volts two redundant systems side by side.

[Healey Nut]

I have two 400 ton Trane Centravac Chillers, I have all the maintenance manuals and break down manuals, with pressure readings. This system was installed in the late 50s early 60s. Do you think this will help? I would have to scan them as the manuals are old school but very in depth.

The chillers you have are more than likely not the model the OP is refering to if they were installed in the late 50s early 60s .

[RACMT]

I dont think butterflies can explain the feeling. Because it will either work or it will tear itself apart. Hopefully you are insured or have a lot of spare part and weeks of time.

[Otis201]

Not a task you want to take on without an experienced hand. There's alot more to it than replacing o-rings and gaskets. It's a very precise and complex process but even more, it's very dangerous without the proper rigging and understanding of the weights involved. The motor alone on a 4160, 500 ton centravac is close to 3000 lbs. Hope you have good insurance.

[whiteside2831]

I don't have a pickup truck I work for a large industrial service company. If it's that much headache then I won't try and quote it, I know it's been done before I'm trying to determine the best way of going about it. My post was in a rush and I might have come off as a slouch to you. I've done service and maintenance for quite sometime I just have not been asked about an overhaul. I wanted to upgrade to the UCP2 interface and upgrade the panel with a modern liquid cooled VFD. The people I talked to at Trane said the volut it's self comes as a complete assembly and as long as the alignment is good and the gaskets are replaced it shouldn't cause to much of a headache. Torquing bolts, replacing gaskets and cleaning parts are primarily what's involved.


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[whiteside2831]

It is not 4,160 volt it's a rather small centrifugal. Sorry for the misconception I left the info on my iPad and I'm not at home at the moment.


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[jayguy]

...Torquing bolts, replacing gaskets and cleaning parts are primarily what's involved...

that is what the apprentice does. is overhauling the chiller hard? not really...if you are trained properly. by my 4th chiller, i was overhauling them as the lead...but i also worked for trane at the time and i was trained by some pretty good guys.

upgrading to the UCP2 isn't too tough except that the UCP2 upgrade hasn't been available for quite some time. you have to upgrade to the ch530 at a minimum and that may not be available any longer either (i am not sure). you may have to upgrade to the adaptiview which has to be perfromed by trane.

as for adding a drive to the chiller...this aint no water pump. you will have to upgrade the controls in order to use a drive and there is a whole mess of things to consider before you spend that kind of money. using a drive on a chiller is much more than just slowing it down (because in many cases it won't slow down).

[klove]

Have you even considered the amount of work involved and the specialty tools/rigging equipment you need to overhaul a Centravac .
Do you have the nessacary recovery equipment to even remove the refrigerant .
That chiller cost a whole pile of $'s , have you considered what /who is responsible if you do it wrong and you push the start button and it scrambles ??
I am in the process of completing my 70th teardown and I still get butterflies and parts of me still pucker a little when I push the start button for the first time after completion .
This isnt a job that someone with a pick up truck and set of reefer gauges should even consider attempting .JMHO

I couldn't agree more!!!! And I quit counting overhauls a while back....I'd give this a lot of thought before proceeding on your current path, if I were you.

I do have a question: You have 20 + leaks on one machine and only have 30 minutes/day pumpout time? Those numbers don't add up, partner. Are they mostly on the high side? That much pumpout time for low side leaks on an old machine isn't exactly grounds for the expense of a regasket, in my opinion (and no, I'm not an advocate of leaving something leaking, but the sky ain't exactly falling here). If you have evidence of the need for new bearings, that's a different story.

[whiteside2831]

You guys are giving me good information. I didn't say I was going to do it, I'm trying to determine if my company and I are capable of handling the situation. We all learn at some point in time. I was told it was called upc2 but adaptview is what I was talking about. I'm trying to learn as much as I can. Obviously looking at it doesn't do the task justice. People that assemble cars don't rebuild them. I'm not trying to make an ass of myself, even though I appear to be doing a great job. Just trying to make the right call. That's why I'm asking, I wanted to see what information you fellow techs had on the procedure.


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[whiteside2831]

It's purge limit is set at 30. The on site mechanic resets it. It will trip a few times a day depending on run time. They are using a lot of free cooling so at the moment they are off and the auto purger still runs quite a bit.


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[triggerhappy]

I have a customer that has 2 CVHE050's it has the two stage economizer I think that's the CVHE. They were installed in the mid 90's and have not been overhauled. I just did a leak inspection and found 20+ leaks a piece. Auto purger is running 30+ minutes ever 24. We had Trane come in to quote a repair and it was more then they anticipated. I've been looking into doing the work myself. The motor alone is in the 10's of thousands. They are running normal amperage and no excessive heat or noise. I want to try and overhaul it with leaving the old motor replace the volut/shell and gaskets. Has anyone on here performed this task and have a parts list and an approximate time frame to complete this. I cannot find a manual with overhaul layout and the local Trane supplier found some things but wasn't extremely helpful. Any input would be extremely helpful.


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To answer your question......you need to quote about 80 hours for a tech. and 80 for a helper if the machine has clearance. A motor change out kit from trane parts house will give you 90 percent of your orings and gasket (so you do not have to identify). It is as the name implies all you need to pull the motor and put it back.
Then there will be a few more that you will have to identify. You do need to pull the motor back and replace oring and motor terminal gasket and studs and thermistor block.
Trane will have to do the panel upgrade so forget that. The panel is not making it leak.
Forget the drive as well.

[KnewYork]

To answer your question......you need to quote about 80 hours for a tech. and 80 for a helper if the machine has clearance. A motor change out kit from trane parts house will give you 90 percent of your orings and gasket (so you do not have to identify). It is as the name implies all you need to pull the motor and put it back.
Then there will be a few more that you will have to identify. You do need to pull the motor back and replace oring and motor terminal gasket and studs and thermistor block.
Trane will have to do the panel upgrade so forget that. The panel is not making it leak.
Forget the drive as well.

This is good advice for someone who knows how to perform this service. For the OP I don't think this would be enough time. The hours you have posted would be for an experienced journeyman and helper who have done these before. As far as parts are concerned, if one were to call their local Trane office and give them the serial number, they can identify the parts necessary (in some cases.)

[whiteside2831]

Awesome thanks guys, I was going to call Trane and have them do the panel and commission it. They told me that we could work something out with that. To have them do the work will take a while and they are pricy, but that's because they are good. Again I appreciate all the input good or bad I need to hear it.


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[Healey Nut]

I have another Trane chiller horror story about guys trying to overhaul chiller when they dont know the ins and outs of how they go together .
Anyways manufacturing plant has an old Sidewinder (PCV for the non chiller types) motor fails Trane is called and condems the motor . Price is given to customer for overhaul , Customer says you gotta be freaking kidding thats way to expensive we will have our Millwrights etc do the job .
Couple of days later Trane is called to go have a look see at the job and give some "direction" as to how the chiller comes apart . Tech Arrives at site to find the on site staff have removed the charge (dont ask how) removed electrical and terminal box motor connections and removed the motor housing bolts . They now have a gas powered fork lift hooked up to the rear of the chiller and are trying to yank the motor out the back end of the chiller without first going in the front to remove shaft locknut vanes , seals , diffusers impellers etc . Apparently there were black tire marks on the plant floor where the fork lift had made numerous "Yank" attemps at the motor . Needless to say when the Trane tech stopped them and they finally took the chiller apart is was trashed inside bent the main separation plate that separates the stages (anyone whos done a PCV knows how sturdy and thick they are ) impellers , seals , vanes etc all trashed .
Chiller went to the dump I believe in the end .

Moral of the story is " Sometimes you need to stand back and let the guys who know how to do it get on with it " Watch learn and ask questions .

[KnewYork]

I have another Trane chiller horror story about guys trying to overhaul chiller when they dont know the ins and outs of how they go together.

Stories like this just warm my heart.

[whiteside2831]

Thanks for your input. Makes sense. Doesn't hurt to ask find out how bad it really can be. I appreciate it.


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[Nuclrchiller]

I have another Trane chiller horror story...

I was told this very story by my first boss and mentor almost 30 years ago! I don't recall where it was, or if he even said. Not even if it was in this area.