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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
    No financial incentives were offered, I would expect them to cover the term of the agreement.

    UA attorney said it was not to be signed.

    I just don't get the idea of doing this type of thing in our type of industry?

    If the company is good,,,,, the customer will stay regardless of the employee, if the customer wants to go with the employee, the company has bigger issues IMHO.

    The UA attorney does not represent YOU.

    You understand that, right?

    He represents the interests of the UA.

    I said have YOUR attorney review it.

    I would ask the potential employer why they feel the need for a non-compete. If they can't or won't answer, and offer no financial incentive to have you agree to limit yourself, then they are not a Co you want to work for.

    However, these agreements are VERY often used and it is not surprising that they want one. They either have to tell you why they want it, OR, if it is merely a condition of employment. Ask YOUR attorney if it is legal for them to compel you to sign as a condition of employment without negotiating the value of the agreement.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
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  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    The UA attorney does not represent YOU.

    You understand that, right?

    He represents the interests of the UA.

    I said have YOUR attorney review it.

    I would ask the potential employer why they feel the need for a non-compete. If they can't or won't answer, and offer no financial incentive to have you agree to limit yourself, then they are not a Co you want to work for.

    However, these agreements are VERY often used and it is not surprising that they want one. They either have to tell you why they want it, OR, if it is merely a condition of employment. Ask YOUR attorney if it is legal for them to compel you to sign as a condition of employment without negotiating the value of the agreement.
    The ua attorney in this case does represent its members.

    Sorry for the confusion, this agreement was brought up during my present employment, six years in, all of sudden the president asked us to review and sign it.

    I have not been told the consequences of NOT signing it, so as of now, not signing and returned the agreement unsigned.

    We will see what will happen.

    thank you to all that have commented.

  3. #16
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    Stick it to them and let the chips fall where they may. I would never sign one in a billion years. I walk if they ask that crap.

  4. #17
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    Absolutely necessary. I have a contractor friend going through this now. Ex project manager is underbidding and stealing his work. I'll give the guy 6 months to a year before he learns that you have to make money above the costs to stay in business. Meanwhile he's doing a lot of damage to his stolen customers by cutting corners and promising things he can't delieve simply because, at his prices, he can't afford to.

    The nicest guy on here can turn into the biggest threat to his present company in the following days after he exits that company to "do his own thing" which means stealing the customer base of his previous employer.

    BTW, the agreement has to be reasonable and have a time limit.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    Absolutely necessary. I have a contractor friend going through this now. Ex project manager is underbidding and stealing his work. I'll give the guy 6 months to a year before he learns that you have to make money above the costs to stay in business. Meanwhile he's doing a lot of damage to his stolen customers by cutting corners and promising things he can't delieve simply because, at his prices, he can't afford to.

    The nicest guy on here can turn into the biggest threat to his present company in the following days after he exits that company to "do his own thing" which means stealing the customer base of his previous employer.

    BTW, the agreement has to be reasonable and have a time limit.

    There is no threat in my eyes when someone underbids. Not good customers if they are willing to leave based on price.

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    Absolutely necessary. I have a contractor friend going through this now. Ex project manager is underbidding and stealing his work. I'll give the guy 6 months to a year before he learns that you have to make money above the costs to stay in business. Meanwhile he's doing a lot of damage to his stolen customers by cutting corners and promising things he can't delieve simply because, at his prices, he can't afford to.

    The nicest guy on here can turn into the biggest threat to his present company in the following days after he exits that company to "do his own thing" which means stealing the customer base of his previous employer.

    BTW, the agreement has to be reasonable and have a time limit.
    I blame the customers leaving, did they really expect to get something for nothing?

    If the customers realize this, I think most will, they'll go back to the regular contractor.

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
    I blame the customers leaving, did they really expect to get something for nothing?

    If the customers realize this, I think most will, they'll go back to the regular contractor.
    In reality the first number of customers do get something for nothing. And that stays true until the ex-employee goes out of business cause he doesn't make enough to stay in business.

    Then I typically step in to correct these problems if possible. So I win somewhat.

    But everyone loses in situations like this. It's just part of our business though. Keeping Ex employees away from existing customer bases is a good thing and helps to reduce this problem.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  8. #21
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    I sign them. They don't hold much water, for several reasons:
    1. IF the customer contacts you FIRST, that's not soliciting.
    2. IF you can prove negligence/ misconduct on the part of your previous employer. If they did HACK work, you point that out, and state your conscious led you to leave. I seriously doubt any co. is going to want to pay your costs, when you start bringing ASHRAE, NFPA personnel to testify in a court of law.
    If they undersized ductwork, or did a change out, WITHOUT bringing the unit(s) up to code, that's on them.
    I've seen plenty of jobs that passed inspection, and were still WRONG!

  9. #22
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    The attorney has a contract to represent the people who are paying him. That is the UA, even if they claim otherwise.The only way you get unbiased representation is to pay for the attorney yourself.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

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  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    In reality the first number of customers do get something for nothing. And that stays true until the ex-employee goes out of business cause he doesn't make enough to stay in business.

    Then I typically step in to correct these problems if possible. So I win somewhat.

    But everyone loses in situations like this. It's just part of our business though. Keeping Ex employees away from existing customer bases is a good thing and helps to reduce this problem.
    When the customer gets burned once, they will be less likely to do it again, ie follow the cheap guy.

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by obieone View Post
    I sign them. They don't hold much water, for several reasons:
    1. IF the customer contacts you FIRST, that's not soliciting.
    2. IF you can prove negligence/ misconduct on the part of your previous employer. If they did HACK work, you point that out, and state your conscious led you to leave. I seriously doubt any co. is going to want to pay your costs, when you start bringing ASHRAE, NFPA personnel to testify in a court of law.
    If they undersized ductwork, or did a change out, WITHOUT bringing the unit(s) up to code, that's on them.
    I've seen plenty of jobs that passed inspection, and were still WRONG!
    I hear that, but the agreement in question, also states that I would be unable to ACCEPT business, as well as not solicit.

  12. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by timebuilder View Post
    The attorney has a contract to represent the people who are paying him. That is the UA, even if they claim otherwise.The only way you get unbiased representation is to pay for the attorney yourself.
    This might happen if the company is insistent on me signing, right now I have not heard a thing.

  13. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by indy2000 View Post
    I hear that, but the agreement in question, also states that I would be unable to ACCEPT business, as well as not solicit.
    That sounds like restriction of trade? I'd get an independent labor atty. to review that contract. It may cost you a couple of bucks, but, that's better than being SOL later on.

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