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  1. #1
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    Appion CRT leak?

    I’m not a Pro first off but I have some but not all Pro tools. Working on an old automotive A/C system.
    I had an old vacuum pump from back in the eighties which seem to get down to below 29 in/hg on compound gauges just as old. I wondered how good it really was. Long story but I ended up with a JB DV-3E, BluVac LTE and two Appion CRTs.

    The system is back together and I had two YJ black vacuum rated hoses coming. Just to play, I used manifold gauge to vacuum through the Appion CRTs. Got down to around 545 microns when it seemed to hit a plateau. I isolated the system and shut the pump off.

    After 30 minutes it was 697 microns which is more than good. Didn’t expect them but the YJ hoses came. It was at 850 microns at this time.

    I cracked the hose on pump and wooosshhh! The manifold was still open. I didn’t touch anything on the Appions or recheck them but it appears that they leak. Over an hour later and it’s at 1100 microns.

    Going to try again with the YJ hoses but has anyone run into this? Operator error or just a fluke?

  2. #2
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    I fought long and hard for 'em , and they just aint what they used to be.

  3. #3
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    Didnt they come out with a new plunger and gaskets...... might want to get over to you tube and check out fritz rochesters videos on appion core removers.

    They had some problems with some....dont know if they leaked or what.... but I know appion sent Fritz some new ones and I think they mentioned in the vid that they changed the o ring style.
    The bible is my constitution and the constitution is my bible.

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  4. #4
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    Aug 2009
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    They sent me a new plunger but the thing seems to screw up at about 600 microns.

    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    Didnt they come out with a new plunger and gaskets...... might want to get over to you tube and check out fritz rochesters videos on appion core removers.

    They had some problems with some....dont know if they leaked or what.... but I know appion sent Fritz some new ones and I think they mentioned in the vid that they changed the o ring style.

  5. #5
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    Nov 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by wptski View Post
    I’m not a Pro first off but I have some but not all Pro tools. Working on an old automotive A/C system.
    I had an old vacuum pump from back in the eighties which seem to get down to below 29 in/hg on compound gauges just as old. I wondered how good it really was. Long story but I ended up with a JB DV-3E, BluVac LTE and two Appion CRTs.

    The system is back together and I had two YJ black vacuum rated hoses coming. Just to play, I used manifold gauge to vacuum through the Appion CRTs. Got down to around 545 microns when it seemed to hit a plateau. I isolated the system and shut the pump off.

    After 30 minutes it was 697 microns which is more than good. Didn’t expect them but the YJ hoses came. It was at 850 microns at this time.

    I cracked the hose on pump and wooosshhh! The manifold was still open. I didn’t touch anything on the Appions or recheck them but it appears that they leak. Over an hour later and it’s at 1100 microns.

    Going to try again with the YJ hoses but has anyone run into this? Operator error or just a fluke?

    I'm not following your process at all.......

    can you be a little more clear about your process. the way it reads, you vacuumed, then added other hoses, the manifold was open, then the reading went up.....250 microns in an hour. a better description would help the troubleshooting process.

  6. #6
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    May 2006
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by 71CHOPS View Post
    I'm not following your process at all.......

    can you be a little more clear about your process. the way it reads, you vacuumed, then added other hoses, the manifold was open, then the reading went up.....250 microns in an hour. a better description would help the troubleshooting process.
    It was at 850 microns when USPS dropped off the YJ hoses. While the system was still isolated, I decided to connect the new hoses to the pump "only" and when I removed the yellow manifold hose from the pump, the micron value started to rise. It was at 1735 microns after five hours which is great but the Appion CRTs aren't holding. If I didn't remove that one hose, the system would have held on to a much lower value.

    This sort-of says a lot about the quality of my old crappy hoses and manifold which have to 25 years old or more.

    I've watched several of Fritz's videos about the Appion's and the problem wasn't about leaking, it was about not holding on to the cores. In fact they bragged how good they were for holding vacuum. I didn't use them for that at all. The high side a old R-12 system is a 3/16" and you have to use an adapter on which I pulled the core. On low side it a standard 1/4" but again since the Appion can't depress the core, I used a 90 deg adapter with no core, no threads for one anyway.

    I thought that the Appion's would be the best fitting I have. I got two CPS ball valves today also, I might try them between the hoses and the Appion's. Double isolation it'll be.

  7. #7
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    Thread Starter
    It appears that all the Appion CRTs needed was a bit of exercising.

    Went through the manifold gauges again right from where it was at or 1963 microns at the time. Pumped it down, isolated and when the hose at the pump was loosened this time, no big rush was heard and the micron gauge hardly increased.

    Let it go to atmosphere, using the manifold again and it was at 454 microns after 30 minutes. Back to atmosphere again, using the new hoses which aren't YJ but Mastercool 47604 5' 1/4" fittings. From atmosphere again, I was going to run 30 minutes to compare. I came back 21 minutes later to find it at 192 microns and stopped it there. I read a PDF at the JB site that one shouldn't go below 200 microns because it can damage the oil when it has refrigerant molecules in it. Even though system "only" has fresh new oil in it, I played it safe. No telling how much lower it would have went but what a difference with these better hoses!

  8. #8
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    Dec 2003
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    If I'm reading correctly, you're letting the system go "back to atmoshere". Bad thing to do as moisture will be drawn into the syste. Always break the vacuum with N2.
    Doug

  9. #9
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    Sep 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    If I'm reading correctly, you're letting the system go "back to atmoshere". Bad thing to do as moisture will be drawn into the syste. Always break the vacuum with N2.
    I'm confused about breaking a vacuum with N2. After I get my vacuum to 500 or less microns, I break it by adding refrigerant into the system. If its a new ac, then I close the ball valves on my hoses and open the 2 valves on the ac.




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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvac hero View Post
    I'm confused about breaking a vacuum with N2. After I get my vacuum to 500 or less microns, I break it by adding refrigerant into the system. If its a new ac, then I close the ball valves on my hoses and open the 2 valves on the ac.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I believe he was referring to doing a triple evacuation. A triple evacuation is accomplished by breaking the vacuum with nitrogen, then the final time you charge it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan1088 View Post
    I believe he was referring to doing a triple evacuation. A triple evacuation is accomplished by breaking the vacuum with nitrogen, then the final time you charge it.
    Oh ok. I only do residential work and have never done a triple evac before. Can you explain the advantage to doing a extra vacuum? I thought if 500 held then I was in great shape to move forward.


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    Life is like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today might burn your ass tomorrow.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvac hero View Post
    Oh ok. I only do residential work and have never done a triple evac before. Can you explain the advantage to doing a extra vacuum? I thought if 500 held then I was in great shape to move forward.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It's typical of systems that could be high in moisture, already had refrigerant in it, or the likes of that. I do it mostly when the vacuum stalls at 1000-1200 microns and levels off. Most of the stuff I do has already ran.

  13. #13
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    Thread Starter
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    If I'm reading correctly, you're letting the system go "back to atmoshere". Bad thing to do as moisture will be drawn into the syste. Always break the vacuum with N2.
    I'm not a Pro but I know that it's not good to do and to use N2 but wouldn't even know where a non-Pro could purchase it.

    My gauge showed 960 microns after 18 hours. I started right there with a added ball valve at the pump, took it down to 200 microns and closed the Appions and the ball valve. At 30 minutes, no change. Removed the line before the ball valve at the pump and it rose only 12 microns in 30 minutes.

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