LED Versus Fluorescent In Ceiling Fixtures

[meby]

Anyone have any numbers to share on which system makes more sense to install today. I'd like to hear about new installs as well as retrofitting existing fixtures.

[dcx516]

ive been installing Cree 2x2 led troffers in all of our buildings and they work amazing. we get a really good price on them plus a rebate from our local utility.

[54regcab]

Fluorescent is way more cost effective in initial cost of high lumen output applications. LED's are cool, but have a ways to go for high lumen fixtures at reasonable prices.

[madhat]

I'm not involved in the switch to LEDs, but do hear the electicians talk about them. The Crees put out as much or more light than the Fluorescents, the Crees are 60% directional so there is less wasted light verses the 100% directional Fluorescents. There is no burn in time and there is very little light output decrease over the life of the bulbs. The utility pays us more per fixture to retro fit than the cost of the materials, this helps offset labor cost. About six years ago they change all of the Exit signs to LEDs, only one has had an issue, we think someone hit the sign. It has to help the Cooling load, I have one building I'm worried about since it's Electric Reheat. BTW they joke that they are putting themselves out of a job, by installing LEDs.

[54regcab]

Exit signs are an area that LED's are excellent. Low lumen requiremnets and long life.

[AtticusFinch]

I also would like to update my garage with LED fixtures like the king of racing. Many LED manufacturers have no common plan for communication to the luminaires, and the standards in fixturing are not there. How do you replace a unit with another manufacturer? Not easily.

How do you communicate with other luminaires or other building systems? 0-10v control is not a reasonable solution for larger buildings. It should have seen its implementation death many years prior to today. It is an embarrassment to the industry.

With most fluorescent you have had the ability to use open protocol. Worldwide there are some manufacturers that are using DALI protocol in LED, although in the US market DALI seems discouraged by many factions which do not seem to appreciate open protocols. I think you will find CREE largely with this mindset. It appears they will give you a true DALI option if not located in the US. In the US they have an option from Lutron. Lutron literature states that EcoSense is closely based off of the international DALI standard (IEC 60929), with proprietary extensions to allow additional functionality.

This could be considered close minded thinking, and long term not a good idea to support a closed direction such as CREE where they do not support open communication in a better manner. Even someday you will need to replace all luminaires in a building. Not having the ability for a competitive procurement environment is a poor choice for a building owner and something which requires more careful long term consideration.

It is also not so clear that LED is the most efficient solution.
http://www.p-2.com/helpful-information/blog/370-is-led-the-most-efficient-lighting-technology/

I think there is only improvement, but for today fluorescent is still viable.

[craig1]

BTW they joke that they are putting themselves out of a job, by installing LEDs.

I was in an electrical supply house picking up a couple 6ft H.O. flourescent bulbs for a supermarket freezer and happened to mention that I just needed two bulbs because they were for an emergency repair while I waited for the shipment of LED retrofits to come in.

The counter guy suggested that by installing LEDs I was putting myself out of a job and that changing bulbs makes more money in the long run than putting in expensive LEDs now. I replied that I'm a refrigeration guy, not a bulb changer and freezer lights are a thorn in my side and I'm happier not getting calls about the T12s being burned out for the 3rd time this month.

[meby]

I'm not involved in the switch to LEDs, but do hear the electicians talk about them. The Crees put out as much or more light than the Fluorescents, the Crees are 60% directional so there is less wasted light verses the 100% directional Fluorescents. There is no burn in time and there is very little light output decrease over the life of the bulbs. The utility pays us more per fixture to retro fit than the cost of the materials, this helps offset labor cost. About six years ago they change all of the Exit signs to LEDs, only one has had an issue, we think someone hit the sign. It has to help the Cooling load, I have one building I'm worried about since it's Electric Reheat. BTW they joke that they are putting themselves out of a job, by installing LEDs.

It's good to hear some electricians joke about it. I've heard others who don't think it's funny at all. They really complain about this issue.

[DavidDeBord]

Here in S.Western Ohio, Duke Energy is now giving rebates for installing LED Lighting indoors, & outdoors. I've got a Gas station owner interested in getting this done, & I'm just wondering if there have been major improvements in the equipment, & efficiencies, since the last posts made here?

[madhat]

There is a lot more competition and the price has come way down. Also there's LED Lamp for almost any application. I went to a historic restuarant and they had chandlers with tapered candles in them, complete with the dripped wax. The next day I saw them in the daylight and was shocked they were all LED. Also I've seen antique filament bulbs that were LED. The bean counters put the brakes on LED replacements at work.

[DavidDeBord]

About 6 months ago, I made my 1st inquiry about these lights, & could get very little data about them from my closest Supplier, so I reached out further into Cinti., Ohio, & on the Net. Now, I'm kinda overwhelmed with the data, & trying to sort it out.
Just like in cars, furnaces, & TVs, everyone is claiming that their product is the best. Th emain deciding factor, is gonna b those products that qualify for the healthy rebates from Duke Energy.

[madhat]

You want the lamps with an Energy-Star rating or no rebate.

[DavidDeBord]

True.

I downloaded the PDF form about the LED equipment that Duke Energy approves. All must have the Energy Star rating in order to qualify for the rebate, & the rebate is pretty hefty itself. If, my Ethiopian customer can get his act together, I'll do very well on the indoor, & outdoor installation.

[moctod]

LEDs are quickly becoming the way to go as color properties have improved dramatically and cost are rapidly declining. If you are considering installing dimming flourescent I have one recommendation - don't! Over thirty years in the business and flourescent dimming has been and still is a big problem and a headache. LED light sources approved for dimming are the way to go. We are using LED fixtures for interior and exterior lighting applications with much success. Yes, they cost a little more depending on the type and quality but the life is much greater, control is much easier and the energy usage is much, much lower.

[losodovoju]

From the monetary perspective, fluorescent tube is cheaper; however, it has some drawbacks such as long activation time and brightness decline within a short period of time. And hence, I replace the fluorescent with LED by having the brief conversion calculation on power.

I agree with you that LED comes with brighter illumination, but most importantly, it uses lesser power!

[DavidDeBord]

Since my last post, we've begun installing several of these units, with very little problem, at a reasonable cost, & the Customers being very satisfied.

[billi1905]

I’ve been switching over fixtures to direct wire 4ft T8 bulbs. So far out of the 200 bulbs I’ve had one failure. The price on led fixtures is falling so fast it’s ridiculous. I had planned on replacing bulbs in some recessed cfl fixtures with LED bulbs, but now the price of replacement fixtures has dropped below the cost of the bulbs. The cost of the bulbs was already below the cost of two cfls and a ballast. Plans also include 30 400 watt parking lot lights.

[DavidDeBord]

I’ve been switching over fixtures to direct wire 4ft T8 bulbs. So far out of the 200 bulbs I’ve had one failure. The price on led fixtures is falling so fast it’s ridiculous. I had planned on replacing bulbs in some recessed cfl fixtures with LED bulbs, but now the price of replacement fixtures has dropped below the cost of the bulbs. The cost of the bulbs was already below the cost of two cfls and a ballast. Plans also include 30 400 watt parking lot lights.

I'm wondering what Affect the "Tariffs" will have on Availability & Pricing Billi?

[madhat]

We had office workers complaining about the LEDs being too bright. It would have cost a small fortune to put the light switches in with the 0 to 10 dimmer and new wiring in the walls. Electricians put prewired ambient light switches in the ceiling aimed at the windows, and set the light high limit. This saved even more on lighting.

[Juan Madera]

I've installed hundreds of the direct wire 4' T8 LED's and they are quick to install, run very cool, as in reducing building loads, and have gotten several nice rebates from the power company to do so.

One thing not often mentioned is the power saved by reducing the A/C loads. It is big. Also replacement costs.. Fluorescent bulbs last about a year in 24/7 service. Cuts man hours in maintenance. 5 year warranty too.