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    They were not the liberal nuts they are today.

    They were not the liberal nuts they are today.
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    Better yet Scoobie what would you do if the...

    Better yet Scoobie what would you do if the democrat party went old school?
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    You must work in an area where the balance...

    You must work in an area where the balance contractors care about doing a good job. If that's the case I envy you. Even the government here doesn't want to pay you for lost time.
    I did a job here...
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    It would be fantastic if liberalism did what they...

    It would be fantastic if liberalism did what they claim. The problem is it does the exact opposite. It doesn't feed the poor it helps starve them. It doesn't heal the sick it accelerates their death....
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    Way to go!!! :cheers:

    Way to go!!!

    :cheers:
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    Funny thing my dad was a life long democrat until...

    Funny thing my dad was a life long democrat until about the time I saw the light. He was a union man and believed in the unions. He became so disappointed that he wouldn't admit he changed parties...
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    I never had liberal thoughts. I did believe in...

    I never had liberal thoughts. I did believe in listening to their point of view until I was 27 years old. I was a conservative democrat until then. The 1968 Chicago garbage(democrat convention)...
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    I have one similar Cagey57. I was called to...

    I have one similar Cagey57. I was called to trouble shoot comfort problems in a building wing that was new and had been balanced. When I found out in had been recently balanced I told them call the...
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    I didn't know that pecmsr. Brad is probably...

    I didn't know that pecmsr. Brad is probably eligible now for pro membership. Looks qualified to me.
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    That's funny I have trouble with trying to PM or...

    That's funny I have trouble with trying to PM or even answer a PM. My email address is in my profile. If you email me we can get around the PM.
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    Will do Brad. Feel free to email me also. I enjoy...

    Will do Brad. Feel free to email me also. I enjoy talking to all you guys.
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    I was assigned to do some design work at a...

    I was assigned to do some design work at a missile assembly base. There were six of us doing different tasks. One guy walked a few steps down the road and the guard exploded. He called everyone out...
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    Around here an extra is next to impossible. I...

    Around here an extra is next to impossible. I charged a general an extra several years ago. The first thing he tried was to get the fan rep to challenge my report. The report showed them the fan was...
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    There are no such valves to set. I agree with...

    There are no such valves to set. I agree with your suggested approach but can't do it. It is going to be hard to explain in understandable terms why water balance shouldn't be done. Nobody in the...
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    The manufacturers want 70 CFM per KW for electric...

    The manufacturers want 70 CFM per KW for electric heat in the FPB'S. You can get by with a little less but if you have 30 and 50 CFM the heater has to be smaller than 1 KW. If not the heat will not...
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    The only problem I have had making the women...

    The only problem I have had making the women happy is when management refuses to listen to them. I think I related this story before but here goes again.
    In a hospital one of the lady workers...
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    Unfortunately if you can't measure the shut off...

    Unfortunately if you can't measure the shut off head you can't determine what size impeller that is in it without tearing it down. In your case I would make certain there is no electrical problem and...
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    Good luck crazy. I'm really looking forward to a...

    Good luck crazy. I'm really looking forward to a lot of stories. It should be interesting.
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    Have you tested (measured) the dead head pressure?

    Have you tested (measured) the dead head pressure?
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    If you want to know what is going on with a pump...

    If you want to know what is going on with a pump you need to test it against the pump curve. As previously mentioned a pump will draw more current moving water than developing head. You need to test...
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    Post the pump curve if you have it. When you...

    Post the pump curve if you have it. When you tested the shut-off head did it match the pump curve?
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    Let's Share Some Stories

    All of us have some interesting stories that only those in our line of work care to hear. I'll start it off but want to hear yours.
    A lady in a facility I recently balanced had always been cold and...
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    The system won't be stable Poodle but it will...

    The system won't be stable Poodle but it will heat the building flawlessly. That's why this is difficult to explain. Moet engineers don't really understand what they have designed on water systems...
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    If you are asking me pecmsg I don't know. It...

    If you are asking me pecmsg I don't know. It wasn't part of the HVAC system so not part of my work. I only know they could make ice anytime and melt it anytime.
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    What has made it difficult BBeerme is the system...

    What has made it difficult BBeerme is the system heats really good and that has everyone convinced everything is OK. I basically have to accurately predict the future in regards to how the valves...
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    I met the owner on the job today to make sure the...

    I met the owner on the job today to make sure the dampers were fixed. He was pissed at his guys and told me he doesn't like having the problem either. They have taken actions that have helped but...
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    That's what I was trying to say Brad but couldn't...

    That's what I was trying to say Brad but couldn't come up with the words.
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    I did TAB on a hockey arena. All I know about the...

    I did TAB on a hockey arena. All I know about the chiller is they could produce ice anytime they wanted. This was an indoor pro arena.
  29. If I understand what you are trying to achieve...

    If I understand what you are trying to achieve listen to the control guy. The idea of controlling space static pressure by reading airflows and doing a calculation from that data NEVER WORKS. If...
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    True brad we could discuss it to death if nothing...

    True brad we could discuss it to death if nothing else. To do what you said about return temperature it would require balance of the individual circuit setters. There are so many miss-sized I don't...
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    LOL :angel::gah: :cheers:

    LOL

    :angel::gah:

    :cheers:
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    Coins For Corny'S Collar

    Corny's hate posts lately have me wondering if we should be concerned about his mental status. If a storm comes along and takes down some power lines he might get out of the yard and pee on a live...
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    Good point pecmsg.

    Good point pecmsg.
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    Agree pecmsg it is understandable for the...

    Agree pecmsg it is understandable for the installer to miss a damper occasionally. In that case I have cut the insulation off and got the screws out myself. A lot of times a hole drilled by the blade...
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    The cavitation I'm concerned that might happen is...

    The cavitation I'm concerned that might happen is at the outlet of the control valve. The valves that are controlling almost closed will have a lot higher velocity at the outlet than normal. The...
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    Flanges would solve all your problems if you can...

    Flanges would solve all your problems if you can use them.
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    You hit on how I would prefer to handle this when...

    You hit on how I would prefer to handle this when you suggested setting the total flow to each floor. If I had the branch circuit setters I would set each floor to 2/3 design and have the outside...
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    I can't proportion the water to each floor...

    I can't proportion the water to each floor because there are only circuit setters at each coil and none for the loop. As oversized as some of the control valves are slowing the loop speed will not...
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    It is a two story building with 22 FPB'S. I have...

    It is a two story building with 22 FPB'S. I have advised them that since the control valves are two-way equal percentage that balancing the water is not only a waste of time but the system will work...
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    The boxes are parallel. The leaving air...

    The boxes are parallel. The leaving air temperature is good. The control valves were originally sized by Cv. The control valves are two-way equal percentage.
    The coil sizes were changed but...
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    One of the problems is there is a 1" valve that...

    One of the problems is there is a 1" valve that has a design water flow of 0.6 GPM. Another one is a 3/4" valve with 0.6 GPM design.
  42. Thanks for all the input. I have just re-read all...

    Thanks for all the input. I have just re-read all the posts and all you guys made my day. I've said it before but it's worth saying again "THIS SITE IS GREAT".
    I started a post on water where I have...
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    Yeah 129 inches of water. That isn't the drop...

    Yeah 129 inches of water. That isn't the drop across the valve but the drop through the circuit setter orifice.
    Control valves are normally one pipe size smaller than the line size but in this case...
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    Water Balance Fun

    I'm doing TAB on a job that has been interesting from start to finish. I thought you guys might like to hear about some of the fun.
    The building has a history of not heating or cooling properly. For...
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    Another problem solved on HVAC Talk.

    Another problem solved on HVAC Talk.
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    I wasn't taking a poke at you pmoo. There is...

    I wasn't taking a poke at you pmoo. There is always someone that has an experience you don't no matter how extensive your experience is. I'm one of the oldest on here and it happens to me constantly.
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    Sounds like now you need temperature averaging...

    Sounds like now you need temperature averaging with the results sent to the AHU. There are control guys here that will fix you up when they see this post. That's not my specialty.
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    You are welcome Tremblay. It's great you have the...

    You are welcome Tremblay. It's great you have the AMCA publication because system effect comes in many ways and can kill the system performance. Air rotation verses duct elbow direction especially at...
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    The difference is the turbulence of the air. I...

    The difference is the turbulence of the air. I know that doesn't tell you much but if you look up "System Effect" in the AMCA manual you will better understand. They have some examples of different...
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    Please understand we don't know the extent of...

    Please understand we don't know the extent of your knowledge. Not knowing your qualifications my advice was simply make sure you know what you are doing. We don't know the extent of what you are...
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