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  1. Replies
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    Good day Stability, We do not have all the...

    Good day Stability,

    We do not have all the details, etc and so it is pretty tough to generalize the accuracy of the claims based upon the limits of older technologies. Remember that in a time not...
  2. Heads up - Persistent Russian based IP Addresses trying to hack Tridium Boxes

    Good day All,

    Just a heads up that Russian based IP computers spent pretty much all last night trying to hack into a number of local Tridium based sites. All sites were reasonably security...
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    Single Pair Ethernet (SPE)

    Good day All,

    I cam across an interesting article on Single Pair Ethernet that I thought would be of interest to all.

    Cheers,

    Sam
    ...
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    Good day again numbawunfela, Thanks for "plug"...

    Good day again numbawunfela,

    Thanks for "plug" and I am happy that you like the device! The device only has two real negatives. The first is that I did not include a Zonebus (ZB)interface on the...
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    Good day numbawunfela, I kind of figured given...

    Good day numbawunfela,

    I kind of figured given your earlier comment. But knowing that I am a "bit" pedantic I tend to explain things in detail... I am glad that you like the info, as I almost...
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    Good day numbawunfela, As I have and continue...

    Good day numbawunfela,

    As I have and continue to say, do as you see fit. If one feels that they have something that works for them, then I say go for it. However, I take exception if someone...
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    Good day numbawunfela, They were VAV...

    Good day numbawunfela,

    They were VAV controllers and this would have easily been over 5+ years ago. The units were being removed from a customer site and were being pitched, as the site had...
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    Good day Controls_3AE, I cannot speak towards...

    Good day Controls_3AE,

    I cannot speak towards their latest products, etc but having analyzed a number of their older controllers I was really surprised at how poorly their hardware was designed. ...
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    Are you referring to powering via a transformer...

    Are you referring to powering via a transformer in lieu of a dedicated Power Supply? If so this is a non issue, as the vast majority of power supplies use a transformer as part of the line voltage...
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    Good day Orion242, I am not an expert on...

    Good day Orion242,



    I am not an expert on PoE and so my comments could be incorrect, however, I believe that the PoE Power Supply (called the PSE ... Power Sourcing Equipment) must handshake...
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    Good day Orion242, Reliability... it is...

    Good day Orion242,

    Reliability... it is becoming less common these days.

    As for the installation cost being less? I am with you, as I cannot see it. I can almost see using PoE for someone's...
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    Indeed, I am seeing a number of PoE based...

    Indeed, I am seeing a number of PoE based lighting systems. I am not a big fan, but then again I am a bit old school.

    As for failures.. I guess it would depend on what level of failure would be...
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    Good day numbawunfela, Understood and this...

    Good day numbawunfela,

    Understood and this approach seems to be more common these days... Alas, I guess I am unaccustomed or unwilling to play the current game's rules :)

    Cheers,

    Sam
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    Good day numbawunfela, One thing to consider...

    Good day numbawunfela,

    One thing to consider is if you daisy-chain PoE to a number of controllers, you now have a single point of failure should your PoE switch fail. Say what you will about a...
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    Good day Alper, The problem with the PC...

    Good day Alper,

    The problem with the PC Analogy is that the PC market is significantly larger (100x+) than the HVAC world and that the design criiteria is completely different between the two...
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    Good day metasystech, A couple of issues with...

    Good day metasystech,

    A couple of issues with this. Firstly, BT is far more encompassing that simply a protocol communication technology. There are different BT profiles that can be used along...
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    Good day JCI Man, My apologies, as I...

    Good day JCI Man,

    My apologies, as I misinterpreted your BT Comment. However, I might of been biased as JCI Corporate might be inclined to say things like BT is going away in order to make a case...
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    Good day JCIMan, I do not think the decision...

    Good day JCIMan,

    I do not think the decision to discontinue the device is because of component shortages, as there are no real shortages of components except perhaps the core bluetooth (BT)...
  19. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day numbawunfela, Understood. Give the...

    Good day numbawunfela,

    Understood. Give the cable part number to Windy City and see what they will charge to make you a plenum rated version.

    Cheers,

    Sam
  20. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day numbawunfela, My apologies for the...

    Good day numbawunfela,

    My apologies for the delayed response, but work has been extremely busy these past several months...and so I have not had a chance to check back on here since my last visit....
  21. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day numbawunfela, No worries, as I do...

    Good day numbawunfela,



    No worries, as I do this all the time. Sometimes will all the data available it is easy to overlook or misread something.



    This is true. Now, to be fair to...
  22. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day again numbawunfela, I think you have...

    Good day again numbawunfela,

    I think you have misread the data sheet:



    The characteristic impedance (Zo) between 100 to 120 ohms is not the Conductor to Conductor Capacitance (this is in the...
  23. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day numbawunfela, Yes, these days...

    Good day numbawunfela,

    Yes, these days everyone wants $$$ for the formal specs... from Electrical codes, to BACnet, etc...The result is some or misinformation out in the "wild".



    Yup, I...
  24. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day numbawunfela. Thanks for adding more...

    Good day numbawunfela.

    Thanks for adding more info to the discussion! As your your comments:



    We may be looking at different wiring specs, as the JCI documents I found for wiring are pretty...
  25. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day Orion242, The first problem is that...

    Good day Orion242,

    The first problem is that the RS485 standard only defines the electrical characteristics of the RS485 drivers and receivers (voltages, drive levels, input impedances, etc). The...
  26. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day Orion242, Understood... and you are...

    Good day Orion242,

    Understood... and you are not the only one and it is no wonder why RS485/Bacnet etc has gotten such a bad wrap, given that the equipment manufacturers and cable providers are...
  27. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day Orion242, True, but the issue is...

    Good day Orion242,



    True, but the issue is because the equipment manufacturers can design their RS485 interfaces differently and so the ideal cable used can be different. As I mentioned the...
  28. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day KP, Well said! Cheers, Sam

    Good day KP,

    Well said!

    Cheers,

    Sam
  29. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day Maxburn, There are already a number...

    Good day Maxburn,

    There are already a number of cable vendors that offer RS485 spec'd cable and it is clearly indicated on their cable datasheets. To me the issue is with the equipment...
  30. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day VAEngineer, Firstly, it is great that...

    Good day VAEngineer,

    Firstly, it is great that you are taking the time to seek out and understand the issues:



    However, a previous post you state:
  31. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day VAEngineer, Just a heads up, but any...

    Good day VAEngineer,

    Just a heads up, but any communication errors means you have a problem.

    Cheers,

    Sam
  32. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day Orion242, I have been saying this...

    Good day Orion242,



    I have been saying this for years... The cost of the cable is typically a very small portion compared to the cable installation cost. Secondly, using proper cable will...
  33. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day Orion242, Yup, no arguments on my...

    Good day Orion242,

    Yup, no arguments on my side... I especially like your comment:



    Cheers,

    Sam
  34. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day Orion242, Understood and like you...

    Good day Orion242,

    Understood and like you said... pick your poison.

    One benefit with Ethernet is that the cable is pretty much everywhere and so there is no real need to stock large quantities...
  35. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day All, Although not directly related to...

    Good day All,

    Although not directly related to "wire" per se... Here is a past post that has some links to some RS485 videos that some may find interesting.
    ...
  36. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day zzip7, I suspect the 32 device load...

    Good day zzip7,

    I suspect the 32 device load has more to do with the controller's ability to support this number of devices than the cable. These days one can use RS485 transceivers that can have...
  37. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day MaxBurn, I agree. Ethernet use has...

    Good day MaxBurn,

    I agree. Ethernet use has exploded over the past several years and so the availability of proper Ethernet cable is everywhere and its practices are reasonably well understood. ...
  38. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
    Replies
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    Good day Orion242, Well said and indeed JCI's...

    Good day Orion242,

    Well said and indeed JCI's RS485 interfaces use standard RS85 transceivers with an excellent design to address electrical transients. However, it seems to me that their...
  39. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
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    Good day VAEngineer, That is a big gamble...

    Good day VAEngineer,



    That is a big gamble and I beg to differ. Your statement would be highly dependent upon the data rate (frequency), cable length, number of devices attached the cable,...
  40. Thread: BACNet wire

    by s2sam
    Replies
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    Good day VAEngineer, In regards to your...

    Good day VAEngineer,

    In regards to your questions



    Firstly, be aware that a wire's specs are and can be different depending upon how the wire is to be used. For example, for low frequency...
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    I have to second Orion242's comments about Cisco....

    I have to second Orion242's comments about Cisco. I was evaluating one of Cisco's low-medium Routers and I was bewildered by the overall functionality... and to use the same phrase "sloppy"...
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    Good day, I believe you actually need a RJ12...

    Good day,

    I believe you actually need a RJ12 cable (RJ12 connectors on 6-conductor cable). RJ12 is the same connector as RJ11 except that it has 6 loaded pins instead of the RJ11's 4 pins. ...
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    Yup... that is about typical for me, but even so...

    Yup... that is about typical for me, but even so I probably have forgotten something. I wonder if I could load up a junior tech and make them into a pack mule of a sort ...

    Cheers,

    Sam
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    Good day Maxburn, Agreed. Thus we decided to...

    Good day Maxburn,

    Agreed. Thus we decided to hold off on the release of the device in order to include MS/TP functionality testing. During this time we monitored the interest and even for MS/TP...
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    Good day JCIMan, Excellent, thank you for the...

    Good day JCIMan,

    Excellent, thank you for the info!

    Cheers,

    Sam
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    Good day Maxburn, I wonder when JCI came out...

    Good day Maxburn,

    I wonder when JCI came out with this? I ask, as we embedded this functionality into our S2USB485 device since 2008.

    Effectively we embedded a voltmeter, etc into the...
  47. Good day bigguy158, This would be good to see...

    Good day bigguy158,

    This would be good to see if the retries helps or minimizes the issue, however, this approach would not fix the issue... it would be more of a band aid. If the supervisory is...
  48. Good day Techdr13, Historically TEC devices...

    Good day Techdr13,

    Historically TEC devices have had issues on the N2 bus and perhaps even on the MS/TP buses too. I remember some of the older TEC's having so many issues that the "fix" was to...
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    Good day BetterDuck, Who does? But your...

    Good day BetterDuck,



    Who does? But your comments come off that you do and if someone challenges you and/or has a differing view you sidestep their rebuttal.

    In my case I have a lot yet to...
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    Good day BetterDuck, My apologies. I was...

    Good day BetterDuck,



    My apologies. I was just trying to figure out where you acquired your all knowing technical knowledge. Given your responses and also not answering direct questions it is...
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