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Originally Posted by shellkamp Fair enough, but certainly over time the friction that "wears in" the scroll plates will eventually "wear out" and lead to a loss in compression. Don't you think? It would be like piston rings in a car, yes they break-in and provide less resistance than when the engine is first fired up while still providing a satisfactory seal been the piston and cylinder wall, but eventually they wear down and the car starts burning oil. Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk Not according to what we were told in Class. The Scroll comp "efficiency" gets better and better w/ age,KindaSorta like me! lol. This is opposite a recip/piston comp which losses a little w/ age.
Originally Posted by madhat I have to Vehicles, both with 186K miles on them. The V6 goes through a 1/4 to a 1/2 quart of oil between fully synthetic oil changes at 5,000 mile intervals. The V8 through a 1/2 to a 1-1/2 quart of oil between fully synthetic oil changes at 5,000 mile intervals. The higher the ambient the more oil I go through, mostly it’s out the PVC Valves. So very little wear. I would think it would be even less on a Sealed Compressor system. BTW to prove a point on Single and Two Speed compressor units, I installed a Sight Glass on the Suction line close to the Compressor. It was a real Eye opener to that particular manufacture. they Make the PCV aftermarket catch cans, I have been adding them for years on my personal vehicles, I learned about them from other car show guys that race for a hobby. its typically the valve seals that get worn out on excessive oil loss (high mileage).. some newer vehicles already have them where it recycles it back into the motor..like an air/water separator for an air compressor..
Originally Posted by shellkamp Fair enough, but certainly over time the friction that "wears in" the scroll plates will eventually "wear out" and lead to a loss in compression. Don't you think? It would be like piston rings in a car, yes they break-in and provide less resistance than when the engine is first fired up while still providing a satisfactory seal been the piston and cylinder wall, but eventually they wear down and the car starts burning oil. Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk Some interesting reading ..... Granted it only pertains to the break-in period.
I have to Vehicles, both with 186K miles on them. The V6 goes through a 1/4 to a 1/2 quart of oil between fully synthetic oil changes at 5,000 mile intervals. The V8 through a 1/2 to a 1-1/2 quart of oil between fully synthetic oil changes at 5,000 mile intervals. The higher the ambient the more oil I go through, mostly it’s out the PVC Valves. So very little wear. I would think it would be even less on a Sealed Compressor system. BTW to prove a point on Single and Two Speed compressor units, I installed a Sight Glass on the Suction line close to the Compressor. It was a real Eye opener to that particular manufacture.
Originally Posted by TechmanTerry The scroll surfaces get "smoother" as the comp runs and gets worn in ,thus increasing the efficiency. At least that is what Copeland teaches in their 3 day COSS Seminar Originally Posted by VTP99 Yeppers Terry is correct Fair enough, but certainly over time the friction that "wears in" the scroll plates will eventually "wear out" and lead to a loss in compression. Don't you think? It would be like piston rings in a car, yes they break-in and provide less resistance than when the engine is first fired up while still providing a satisfactory seal been the piston and cylinder wall, but eventually they wear down and the car starts burning oil. Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Yeppers Terry is correct
The scroll surfaces get "smoother" as the comp runs and gets worn in ,thus increasing the efficiency. At least that is what Copeland teaches in their 3 day COSS Seminar
Originally Posted by TechmanTerry Can you better define a "worn Scroll comp"? A damaged scroll is one thing. But a scroll gets gets better as it gets "worn in",not like a typical recip comp. How does a scroll compressor get better as it wears? I would think any decrease in friction would go hand in hand with a decrease in pumping capacity. Unless you meant "quieter" when you said "better"? Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Originally Posted by Unlimited1 I have only heard stories that a scroll compressor running backwards doesn’t pump and makes a lot of noise..I’ve only heard worn scroll compressors make noise like a really bad engine rod knock at high rpm ..they should be reasonably quiet in operation.. What was wrong with the original compressor? Looking at the pressure readings it looks like the txv could be wide open. I can’t really tell anyway without all the specs especially subcool /superheat /rise/fall Can you better define a "worn Scroll comp"? A damaged scroll is one thing. But a scroll gets gets better as it gets "worn in",not like a typical recip comp.
I have only heard stories that a scroll compressor running backwards doesn’t pump and makes a lot of noise..I’ve only heard worn scroll compressors make noise like a really bad engine rod knock at high rpm ..they should be reasonably quiet in operation.. What was wrong with the original compressor? Looking at the pressure readings it looks like the txv could be wide open. I can’t really tell anyway without all the specs especially subcool /superheat /rise/fall
Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey Now granted; I have not seen Everything - but I have never even heard of a 100uf motor run capacitor. I would call Copeland and make very sure that is correct. Or post the compressor model number and I'll do it for you - I have their app on my phone. PHM -------- So now I gotta get 100uf for the truck? Never seen one. Running backwards or is it 2 compressors with a broken scroll? Do ya got another tech to go confirm your findings?
First Compressor I ever installed, wouldn’t run. Got a Senior tech out there, open windings. He was there for the second compressor. When I pulled it off his truck, it seemed heavier, and it was. Something Was certainly missing, from inside the tin can. Had an Brand new Ice Machine, Compressor Ran, but wasn’t pumping. We bought another Ice Machine. A factory rep. Came out to look at it, they didn’t take the Rubber Plug out of the suction line. Replaced a Roto-Lock Compressor in a Trane, it sounded a little different, but I had to hurry and get off the roof due to a storm. The lights dimmed while I was getting my ticket signed, decided to take a look as the storm was bypassing us. Compressor was locked up solid. Went the next day, we replaced the compressor, another storm blows up. I wedged the compressor in the back of my van, but couldn’t find the Roto-Caps, compressor dumps over. Figured I’d have a huge mess, there wasn’t a drop of oil in the compressor. No it wasn’t in the system, it was shipped dry.
I like to reverse the wires, install as high rated capacitor as I have...300-400’s are good...and beat the crap out of them. Then hit the go button! LOL! Had a cap blow up once. That was exciting!
Originally Posted by TechmanTerry Just one more thing that IDK about. Why is an unloader used on a digital Scroll when the digital part controls/matches the comp load from 100% down to 10%??? rimide, whatca got for info????
Originally Posted by BBeerme I would just beat on it with a 2 by 4. And if that didn't work, I would get My sledge hammer out and beat it until the fuses blew. Then quote a new compressor. LOL, Back in my early days I recall being on the phone with tech support about a scroll compressor that was failing to pump on startup of a new unit. It’s hard to forget a conversation like the one I had with this fellow. After checking everything over he told me to hold on for a bit while he disconnects his voice recorder because he didn’t want to be heard of the procedure he was going to ask me to do. He comes back and says “sir, is there a large blunt object near you like a 2x4 or something like that? I want you to take that 2x4 and beat on the top of that compressor with a good amount of force”... Well, space was limited so I couldn’t hit it as hard as I wanted to and I wanted to hit it hard at that point! We ended up getting a new compressor to install. I always wondered if I maybe just didn’t beat on it hard enough... maybe it would have worked... or not. At least I had fun Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Originally Posted by TechmanTerry How did you know??? LOLALOT Remember We've met Annie!
Originally Posted by TechmanTerry Bsburt, How would you make a comp run backwards? I would just beat on it with a 2 by 4. And if that didn't work, I would get My sledge hammer out and beat it until the fuses blew. Then quote a new compressor.
Originally Posted by RLJN The old ANNIE would let you "bump" or jog a stuck compressor by reversing the run and start windings but IIRC it would then put the run cap on the run winding rather than the start. Correct, The run winding would only be capacitive coupled to the start winding when you swap the two leads from S and R, just like the start winding is only capacitively coupled to the run winding when wired normal. You are swapping the two magnetic fields by doing this and therefore changing rotation. Swapping R and S will result in a change in rotation but not all motors will be able to operate that way for an extended period of time... Originally Posted by RLJN You were supposed to just reverse it for a few seconds and then switch to normal. You could bump it back and forth several times to free the motor. I think that more than 30 seconds would cook windings. some motors handle this better than others. Depends on how the windings are constructed. On motors designed to be reversible the run and start windings are, in at least some cases if not all, identical. The motors are reversed by doing exactly that, swapping run and start. They would be able to operate as per their rating equally in either direction. Originally Posted by RLJN That was quite a tool, would do many things. Including testing pot relays for drop out and pick up etc. Don't know why it is not around anymore. Could do 120 or 240 compressors. I’ve never seen this tool before, looks like I have something to research today Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well truth be told, I've always had a fondness of her. My Annie I mean, not your wife. Not that there's anything wrong with your wife, I'm sure she's a nice lady!
Originally Posted by pecmsg But that was with the Cast Iron Frying Pan! How did you know??? LOLALOT
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