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ferd1942 we are of the same mind. Between engineering and TAB I have been around for over 55 years. A lot of engineers contribute to their own problems. By that I mean a lot assume when there is a problem they can blow any BS they want past everyone on the project and end up smelling like a rose even if they are wrong. When I worked for a consulting engineering firm I got calls from contractors that were aggressive from word one. At the time I didn't understand it but after getting into TAB I ran into some of these know it all jerks. They didn't know they were screwing with someone that had knowledge on both sides of the coin so to speak with 25 years experience doing what they do which in most cases was a lot more experience than they had.

Thank you 3298! Alpha = A and Hotel = H in military speak, so we're of a mind there. I'll have been in the Construction Industry for 61 years as of June 12, and can relate: I've been (insert a word of your choice here) by Champions!

On a personal note: The hardest thing I have to deal with is techs I respect automatically assume I live in the place I mentioned because I'm an Engineer. Again, thanks!

fed1942 the average time it took for me to collect on completed TAB contracts was over 5 months. One job took 11 months and it was only $1800. One architect stiffed everyone but me and the only reason he didn't stiff me was I refused to do the job under contract to him. I ended up with a direct contract to the owner. I had to pull out all the stops to get paid on some jobs. I told some of the aholes to not bother to call me again because I wouldn't do any more work for them. One guy never paid in less than 7 months and always wrote a check for less than the contract amount. That was the part of the business I hated.

I'm thinking Wayne sleeps well at night.

You think the TAB/ Consulting Engineer relationship is tough, try depending on a bunch of slow-paying Architects who "Live in the Alpha Hotel" for your livelihood. Had a couple of apples out of that barrel early on, but try to avoid them when I can.

Think military slang.

Originally Posted by BBeerme

I'm with the crowd telling you to stay in the industry, just not what you are doing now.

Something that has not been mentioned is ultra low temp work. I did that for several years. it's interesting, challenging, and pretty darn easy. Even get to sit on your butt for quite a while at times while waiting for things to happen. 90% of the time or greater you are working in an air-conditioned environment.

Yes but I hate fiberglass insulation and I can never seem to get that crap back in there on those chambers

Originally Posted by WAYNE3298

The down side of TAB is the bare truth pisses some people off at times from the contractors to the engineers. Some times I feel like a professional pisser offer.

This seems like a field I can accelerate at

One thing engineers have to learn is to read the balance summary. TAB has to learn that they owe an explanation in the summary if balance can't be done within design specified tolerances. I had one report rejected because an existing exhaust fan was not capable of delivering design airflow. What pissed me off was the engineer watched me change sheaves on the fan and max out the amps. When I called him his excuse was the owner was holding his feet to the fire and wanted design flow. I told him to either buy them a new fan or get them to understand the fan couldn't do any more and except it. I had included in the summary the fan was maxed out and a bigger motor wouldn't solve the problem.

One of my Mentors was an Engineer for a big sheet metal contractor in Philadelphia. I'd spec'd a school balancing job back before I had a clue and questioned some of the reported results. He reviewed the report and enlightened me about "Kitchen Table Air Balancing", practiced by guys who don't have transportation. Sadly, since then I've seen more than a few bogus readings.

A certified balancing contractor's in a tough spot: He depends on Consulting Engineers for work and payment therefore, but humans - Engineers included - make mistakes. I saw a job where an Engineer spec'd 190 CFM thru a 6" flex on a low pressure system. The initial report said 90 CFM and the Engineer rejected it, saying "must be within +/-10% of design"; the final report said 175 CFM, but I later determined that's the only thing that changed (still 6", still 90 CFM a couple of years later). But the Engineer had his *** covered and everyone was happy. As with all contracting this type of contractor is not prevalent in the TAB community. There are some great ones out there.

That job, my Mentor's encouragement, and a rotten flex installation in a new United Way Agency building we serviced put me on the path and Ive loved doing what I do.

I'm with the crowd telling you to stay in the industry, just not what you are doing now.

Something that has not been mentioned is ultra low temp work. I did that for several years. it's interesting, challenging, and pretty darn easy. Even get to sit on your butt for quite a while at times while waiting for things to happen. 90% of the time or greater you are working in an air-conditioned environment.

The down side of TAB is the bare truth pisses some people off at times from the contractors to the engineers. Some times I feel like a professional pisser offer.

And it's a field where you have job security forever: Your workload increases every hour of every day because of people who are undertrained and/or lazy and/or larcenous and/or living better through chemistry. And the only advertising you (or the company you work for) will ever need is the best kind and free (word of mouth).

You have some good tips here. I went from mechanical design engineer to TAB technician. The engineering degree was a real asset doing TAB but if you apply yourself and learn the fundamentals you will be in demand. The reason I didn't get into controls was you will almost certainly be on call 24/7 a lot. You do have to learn a lot about controls to be a good troubleshooter but mainly you need to know if they are working properly. You don't have to fix them. Don't get me wrong controls are very interesting and challenging. To me TAB is interesting, is challenging at times and you have good troubleshooting tools.

No that’s why you live in jersey lol

$100/hour in NYC - would he be able to afford a coffee there?

Get a job as a Thermostat Repairer in NYC great benefits over 100$ an hr for OT and a good retirement from nycers

Sadly, there's a huge need for qualified people to analyze and fix improper HVAC installations.

Bypass the college degree, and improve on your "Hands On" background instead. Take any ACCA course taught by Hank Rutkowski, PE (literally "Wrote The Book" insofar as ACCA Manuals go) to learn about design, and a duct troubleshooting/air balancing course. The buy yourself some digital instruments (manometer, flow hood and velometer) if you don't already have them. With your background, you'll be decades ahead of me at that age (I even thought I knew it all then)!

I work for a large distributor of building controls / BAS systems in the midwest and every single one of our contractors is talent starved. If you want to use the knowledge you've gained already and have some proficiency with computers at all look into controls. There is a lot to learn, but you could do full programming / engineering, troubleshooting, etc without having to go the full 4 year degree route. Not sure the area you are in, but commercial controls and mechanicals in every territory I've been to are all complaining about not being able to find good people to hire. You have some experience, and the right company would likely be willing to invest.

With that said, there are some good resources online to give you an idea of what that side of the industry looks like. Check out automatedbuildings (dot) com or for some online training info look at buildingautomationmontly (dot) com

Are You Tired of Running all Day, Working on the same old tired azz hvac unit, over and over again ? Well then, let me introduce you to the Wonderful World of The "Stationary Engineer". "IF", and I say again, "IF," You pick the right Company to work for, you will work on everything from 6k water coolers, to 3000 ton chillers, and every other piece of Mechanical, Electrical, Electronic Equipment in between! How will you do this you ask?, I will help you in every way i can, as that is my job, at this point of my life, to give back before i die.! "Seek and Ye Shall Find", "Ask and Ye Shall Receive". PS: I will be here all week!, We will have Dinner Show at 5pm, followed by a Dog and Pony show at 6pm lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsBwLnOfMcU:

Well, I don’t think any degree will open doors in the HVAC field, except for engineering. Your best bet would be to become familiar with the whys of the field and get someone to give you a shot in management or sales at an hvac company. My company brought a guy into the office about your age a year ago and he is doing great. We brought him in because he was technically competent and likable.

Facilities managers make good money. Controls would also be good.

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