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I like the idea of the idea - but I can't see any good reason to do it this way. Nothing about it provides a benefit which can't be had easier, cheaper, and better.

Reverse cycle defrost systems work well and fast and cheap - but to my knowledge you have to built the condensing unit. Something I like, and would like to try, is a single TXV system. It doesn't even have to work very well in defrost as the defrost times are incredibly short. The system doesn't really even stabilize it's operation before the frost is gone. <g>

A nice thing about converting a refrigeration condensing unit for reverse cycle defrost is that they typically have a single-feed coil.

Dont get me wrong theres ways around that but it involves more controls and $

Originally Posted by timjimbob

Good point, but older conventional walk-in compressors often overload on start-up. CC regulator keeps it under control. I don't see much anymore on scroll cooler CU.

Heat pumps dont like 70° ambient heat mode!

Originally Posted by pecmsg

Another thought How are you going to start if that box is 70 +°? Heat pumps dont like hot pull downs!

Good point, but older conventional walk-in compressors often overload on start-up. CC regulator keeps it under control. I don't see much anymore on scroll cooler CU.

Another thought How are you going to start if that box is 70 +°? Heat pumps dont like hot pull downs!

OK

You put the condenser in the Walk In box, fire it up, it pulls down begins to frost and ice over. Time for defrost Woosh

What's going to happen to the condensate
What's going to happen to the box temperature (your in a confined space)


Now when defrosts complete you have a large Pull Down can it handle it?

I repeat, Using conventional hp equipment will not push it outside it’s design envelope. Hpcu is inside a 40 degree environment (cooler box). The ahu, rejecting heat, is in an comfortable 75 degrees inside a building.
Why is this any different from a heat pump installed in a house?
The outside unit that is typically called condensing unit containing the compressor rejects much of its compressor motor heat out the condenser coil, not the compressor shell. So heat is not added to the cooler box.

I have built many walk-in coolers that cool non-food products. Private hunting camps use walk-in coolers and are built by members on a budget who could care less on “pretty”.
Let’s forget energy and health codes for now.

Originally Posted by R600a

I think the main point was to use cheaper equipment which is not a good reason in my opinion.

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Which is probably why NC wrote the code.

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Originally Posted by BadDaddy420

Ok. After seriously considering this setup. Why would you choose a heat pump condensing unit?

If to 'run in heat to cool the space', aren't you just moving the compressor inside the cooler?

This, as I see what you are thinking, is a 1hp condensing unit on top of a cooler piped to a 9,000btu evap. (Btu and HP are just random numbers)

Except that instead of the compressor being on top with the condenser coil, it's inside the cooler with the evap (in your plan, the coil of the HP).

How would this benefit over a standard cooler install with the condenser on top of the box inside the store?

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I think the main point was to use cheaper equipment which is not a good reason in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by timjimbob

Florist shop. Room temp is 72 degrees. Box temp is 40 degrees where outside hpcu is installed in the walk-in box. Plenty of room and no nsf concerns.

Parameters of a residential hp.. outside ambient is 40 and inside room temperature is 72 degrees. Same temperatures.

Heat from compressor is removed through the freon to the condenser coil. Hermetic compressors are refrigerant cooled.

Ok. After seriously considering this setup. Why would you choose a heat pump condensing unit?

If to 'run in heat to cool the space', aren't you just moving the compressor inside the cooler?

This, as I see what you are thinking, is a 1hp condensing unit on top of a cooler piped to a 9,000btu evap. (Btu and HP are just random numbers)

Except that instead of the compressor being on top with the condenser coil, it's inside the cooler with the evap (in your plan, the coil of the HP).

How would this benefit over a standard cooler install with the condenser on top of the box inside the store?

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In NC they just passed code about this... using comfort cooling products in refrigeration. So its not a matter of IF or Who, but is it allowed?

It was brought to the attention of our department by the NC State Board of Refrigeration Contractors that some businesses are using after-market controls attached to comfort cooling equipment to act as refrigeration units for produce cooling. The aftermarket controls and devices that force the comfort-cooling unit to cool to a lower temperature than it was designed for is not in compliance with the manufacturer's installation instructions and is therefore in violation of the NC Building Code. We clarified that this is a violation of NCMC 304.1 and/or 1101.2 if this occurs in a building or process where the NC Building Code is applicable. These sections are reprinted next:

304.1 General. Equipment and appliances shall be installed as required by the terms of their approval, in accordance with the conditions of the listing, the manufacturer's installation instructions and this code. Manufacturer's installation instructions shall be available on the job site at the time of inspection.1101.2 Factory-built equipment and appliances. Listed and labeled self-contained, factory-built equipment and appliances shall be tested in accordance with UL 207, 412, 471 or 1995. Such equipment and appliances are deemed to meet the design, manufacture and factory test requirements of this code if installed in accordance with their listing and the manufacturer's installation instructions.

If the cooling unit is located in a structure, and performing a purpose that meets the definitions of Industrial Equipment, then it is outside the scope of the NC Building Code, reference NCGS 143-138 paragraph b9, but it may be subject to other agency and licensure rules.

Florist shop. Room temp is 72 degrees. Box temp is 40 degrees where outside hpcu is installed in the walk-in box. Plenty of room and no nsf concerns.

Parameters of a residential hp.. outside ambient is 40 and inside room temperature is 72 degrees. Same temperatures.

Heat from compressor is removed through the freon to the condenser coil. Hermetic compressors are refrigerant cooled.

You know I'm with you on this, right? <g>

Although I do disagree in the details you want to apply.

I'll help you do what in you want in any way I can but I think you will get further ahead faster by putting the condensing unit outside the box and the air handler in the box. Or the air handler on top with two big 90º ells down into the box.

Do you have a garage at your house?

PHM
---------

Originally Posted by timjimbob

Compressor motor heat is rejected through the condenser on a refrigerant cooled compressor.
Hey, Tesla didn't do a study of drive time listenership to determine how powerful the first transmitter needed to be. I just need someone with a spare cooler box- maybe a florist?

That's why I wouldn't do it. Someone could get sue happy, call in another for a second opinion, and that second opinion would say the install is completely the wrong application.

Originally Posted by pecmsg

There's a product called CoolBot. Turns a window shaker into a W I Cooler system It does work but eventually kills the window shaker. Usually after the box is filled. See it with hunters out here 2 or 3 times a season. I collect my service call and tell them when they want a reliable system let me know.

Your set up will probably work but is labor intensive. reliability is another issue.

Originally Posted by timjimbob

OK Use larger walk-in box.
#2 "Equipment NOT designed for the parameters it is operating in will use way more power." Only parameter that may be off is AHU temperatures may be 75 to 80 ambient. Not that far off. CU is within parameter.

I have free HPCU from jobs all the time. same with AHU.

Not all applications are restaurant and health code. Hunting camp, beer storage, morgue

There's a product called CoolBot. Turns a window shaker into a W I Cooler system It does work but eventually kills the window shaker. Usually after the box is filled. See it with hunters out here 2 or 3 times a season. I collect my service call and tell them when they want a reliable system let me know.

Your set up will probably work but is labor intensive. reliability is another issue.

Compressor motor heat is rejected through the condenser on a refrigerant cooled compressor.
Hey, Tesla didn't do a study of drive time listenership to determine how powerful the first transmitter needed to be. I just need someone with a spare cooler box- maybe a florist?

Originally Posted by behappy

Let's look at this (as if it works)
1) HP C.U. inside of a walking is taking up valuable real estate.
2) Equipment NOT designed for the parameters it is operating in will use way more power. Very inefficient.
3) Is there a better way to do this... Yes

Then why??

Oh, you got stuff laying around that you want to put to use... Go for it!

OK Use larger walk-in box.
#2 "Equipment NOT designed for the parameters it is operating in will use way more power." Only parameter that may be off is AHU temperatures may be 75 to 80 ambient. Not that far off. CU is within parameter.

I have free HPCU from jobs all the time. same with AHU.

Not all applications are restaurant and health code. Hunting camp, beer storage, morgue

Originally Posted by Core_d

Nothing you can do about “low suction pressure” in a cooler... but, a larger air handler or “kitchen unit” would eliminate any concern about high head and get the most capacity possible out of it.


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I don't know many commercial kitchens that are much below 100°f but over sized condenser will help............….Until it gets packed with grease.

Originally Posted by Core_d

Nothing you can do about “low suction pressure” in a cooler... but, a larger air handler or “kitchen unit” would eliminate any concern about high head and get the most capacity possible out of it.

Did i read this correctly? The outdoor unit is setting on the floor in the cooler and the indoor unit is keeping the cooks nice and toasty in the kitchen?

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Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey

The other way. The low suction is going to reduce compressor capacity - not increase it.

Nothing you can do about “low suction pressure” in a cooler... but, a larger air handler or “kitchen unit” would eliminate any concern about high head and get the most capacity possible out of it.


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