Compressor grounded out... bought new one and it grounded that one out, too

[Pcmaker]

I'm working on a Trane 3.5 ton AC unit that has the "pumpkin" compressor. It was having a hard time starting up, so they put in a 3-1 start kit. It had a hard time starting up, but it would eventually be able to start. I went there and the compressor was an American Standard GP433-3H1-JA. 3.5 hp 1 phase 200-230v

It was grounded out. I bought a Copeland CR47KQ-pfv-980wb and installed it yesterday afternoon. After everything was said and done, I turned it on and it tripped the breaker after the compressor was having a hard time starting like the old one they had. and now the compressor is grounded out... what could be causing this?

They told me that they bought the unit a little over 3 years ago from ARS. after a year, ARS, sent them a letter saying the unit needed an annual "maintenance." A week after they did the maintenance, the unit started acting up and ARS only offered a year warranty so they were going to charge them another 2k to put in a new compressor. I believe they did something underhanded, but now I'm trying to figure out what. I have to take this compressor out that I put in yesterday and swap it out again.

[doc havoc]

Line voltage okay? Is there any voltage drop across the contactor? Did the new compressor come with new start components and were they installed? Is it a winding short or a ground short? Are you sure it's not the condenser fan causing the trip? Are any of the wires to the compressor or fan cut through and shorting out on the cabinet?

[VTP99]

Why did you go from a Trane compressor to a Copeland ?
Compressor should go out on internal overload.
How are you checking the compressor ?
The Trane compressor should be under warranty if it's under 5 years old.

[Snapperhead]

Lets start with the basics and find out how many amps the lines are drawing with only the fan running. Take leads off comp, call for cool, and have amp meter ready.

Check if theres any amps in the ground wire as well if you can.

Also check volts on contactor with fans on ... on each leg to ground, then across legs ... make sure each leg has 110 and across both have 220.

[Tommy1010]

Did you check with meter from comp terms to copper lines or compressor body, to verify its the compressor thats grounded?

If you went from Trane "pumpkin' to copeland scroll, and they both grounded (if they did)...its not the compressor CAUSING the issue. Its something external causing the compressor to BECOME the victim......

Is your outdoor disconnect fused? Are they blowing fuses before breaker pops?

When this happened, was the compressor hot as hell? It wont take but a few secs of LRA to make it too hot to touch.

Im going with improper supply voltage at / to the compressor. I wouldnt even bother buying another one till you verify and eliminate every other possible causes.

You'll only be keeping the compressor companys in business on your own.

[Stamas]

Friend called me in the same situation, (cept he used the rught compressor), and it wasn't the compressor. New one or the old one.

[larnot]

Why did you go from a Trane compressor to a Copeland ?
Compressor should go out on internal overload.
How are you checking the compressor ?
The Trane compressor should be under warranty if it's under 5 years old.

Have to agree. :ditto:

[dan wong]

check to be sure you didn't hook up "RUN" wire to "START" terminal or Visa versa.

[man from trane]

The "pumpkin" compressor is called a Climatuff. Practically indestructible from my experience (though I'm sure there have been many exceptions). I think that Copeland number you gave is too large of a compressor for 3.5 ton, btw.

[Pcmaker]

Took that compressor I got and had it replaced with the same kind. It was probably just bad and i was right. I put another one in and it works like a charm.

[Texas-Tech]

Climatuff compressors are known to be pretty much bullet proof, the only good thing trane ever made.

[Southern Mech]

Climatuff compressors are known to be pretty much bullet proof, the only good thing trane ever made.

oh here we go.

[Texas-Tech]

oh here we go.

No I'm not gonna go there, just that I work on so darn many of them nowadays.

[Keith73]

If you are basing the diagnostic on the breaker tripping, it could be lots of things wrong. Any thing from a misswire to a bad crank case heater or grounded wire.

[Southern Mech]

No I'm not gonna go there, just that I work on so darn many of them nowadays.

hell that's all I work on:grin2:

[timebuilder]

Climatuff compressors are known to be pretty much bullet proof, the only good thing trane ever made.

Who made the Climatuff for Trane? I have only replaced ONE of them, ever. What a great compressor.


Maneurop?

[man from trane]

Who made the Climatuff for Trane? I have only replaced ONE of them, ever. What a great compressor.


Maneurop?

It's actually made by Trane. I know, pretty unusual for a company to actually make something anymore. Seems like everyone just rebrands their merchandise.

[Pcmaker]

Can't decide whether you guys are being sarcastic on the Climatuff "pumpkin" compressors or not. Word out here from my co-workers in Las Vegas, is that they're crap.

[xpuser357]

General electric made that compressor for there GE units years ago. Trane bought them out and now trane has them, You do not need a acummulator for heat pumps with that compressor.

[man from trane]

Can't decide whether you guys are being sarcastic on the Climatuff "pumpkin" compressors or not. Word out here from my co-workers in Las Vegas, is that they're crap.

I'm not being sarcastic this time. I've seen these compressors last months through conditions that would shell out a Copeland in a day, and keep on running. Maybe it's the built-in liquid accumulating chamber. But that's not necessarily a good thing. Compressor change-outs are good money! :grin2:

[energy star]

Exactly how did you or what did you touch with the multi meter probes to determine the compressor was bad. Take us through step by step. What reading did you get? And what meter were you using?

[walterc]

When I have to replace a Trane compressor- I always find an outside source the cause.
Those failed pencil heaters can do them in after a while.
Voltage problems get them too.

[McLean Air]

I'm not being sarcastic this time. I've seen these compressors last months through conditions that would shell out a Copeland in a day, and keep on running. Maybe it's the built-in liquid accumulating chamber. But that's not necessarily a good thing. Compressor change-outs are good money! :grin2:

They are good compressors. I don't get any business from them failing. It's the steel nuts on the suction and discharge lines to the compressor. We are on the beach, and the salt does a number on a/c's. The spine fin coils are great here too. The compressors usually rust out before the cond coil crumbles. If I could change trane's condenser design I would use a very high grade brass or something on those nuts. Even ss rust fast here.

[walterc]

I must say though- the 5 ton Trane systems have a hard time keeping compressors. I got to where I don't install a 5 ton system without an extended warranty. Or I try and go 2 systems. It's that bad. Even a Trane rep agreed.

[Pcmaker]

I wonder what that tech did to break the unit...

The family bought the unit from ARS for $k... then a year later, ARS sent them a letter saying the AC unit was due for an annual "maintenance" for free. Not a week after they did something up there, the compressor died when the 1 year warranty was up and they were going to charge the family another 2 grand to replace the compressor, BUT they'll only do it if the family will have to pay an extra $$$ to clean the coils because they said the coils were so dirty that the compressor they will put in will only break in a short period of time. I only saw 1 pidgeon feather on the coils.. didnt look bad at all.

I bet they did something to break that compressor when they did that "free annual maintenance."

[man from trane]

^ Once again I'm reminded that I don't charge enough. BTW, no pricing allowed. I wonder how you charge more than an hour to clean a coil? I'd get chased off the property with a machete if I charged that! :grin2:

[Stamas]

They are good compressors. I don't get any business from them failing. It's the steel nuts on the suction and discharge lines to the compressor. We are on the beach, and the salt does a number on a/c's. The spine fin coils are great here too. The compressors usually rust out before the cond coil crumbles. If I could change trane's condenser design I would use a very high grade brass or something on those nuts. Even ss rust fast here.


Same problem here. They should step back to what they used before. It's hard to see a 5YO suction fitting rust out when right down the street in a 25YO unit with no corrosion on the fitting.

[Tommy1010]

is the Climatuff the ones that have the indentation on the top side of it? If so, I had many of them here. Only issues I ever had is open int. OL from overheating with our screwed up water conditions. In 3 yrs, I had to change 2 of them. And 1 last month from a stuck open txv and slugged it. But who knows how long it was taking on liquid before it said, "Screw this, this Trane is stopping"!!

lol

[Pcmaker]

Anyone have any idea what the technician from ARS did to break the compressor? The family said the compressor broke down a week after the guy did his "annual maintenance" on it, which was coincidentally right after the warranty ran out.

[Chuck]

I really doubt he did anything to "break" it. Just bad luck or poor installation practices.

[kevster]

Anyone have any idea what the technician from ARS did to break the compressor? The family said the compressor broke down a week after the guy did his "annual maintenance" on it, which was coincidentally right after the warranty ran out.

You are pretty adamant on blaming another tech for "breaking" a compressor and timing it perfectly to be out of warranty. I highly doubt the tech sabotaged the system (although I have seen it done).

You have been asked several times in this thread to describe how you did the troubleshooting on the original compressor. Also, you changed it to a Copeland Scroll which just happened to be shorted to ground out of the box?

I'm more interested in what you did than the other tech.

So, please kindly give us all a clue that have been trying to help you. Being a tech is not about blaming others as much as it is about examining our own troubleshooting techniques. Especially after we install a brand new compressor that also happens to be shorted to ground.