HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air & Refrigeration Discussion banner

Gap between Fireplace side and back wall

1 reading
17K views 13 replies 4 participants last post by  dhaniyal  
#1 · (Edited)
Hi
Our home is about 3 1/2 years old and we have a prefab type fireplace which we never used before.
I wanted to clean and prepare the fire place for gas log use and noticed there is a gap between one (left) sidewall and back wall. (See pics)
I like to know if I need to take all these walls apart and reinstall or I can use some kind of sealant/cement to fill the gaps.
 
#2 ·
As long as the walls can be pulled into each other to lock, I would personally put a granular fire retardant filler behind those sections as backer and then judge the stability and make a decision from there.

Thats me though....

You, I would suggest removal and reassembly.
(I dont want to be responciable for anything) ;)
 
#3 ·
If the mfr. wanted those joints caulked, don't you think he would have done it at the factory? This joint is to allow for thermal expansion. If you caulk it, it will simply crack open again and again. Also, by modifying the fireplace, you void the warranty and listing.
There should not be sheetmetal visible so, yes, the adjustment of how the panels sit in there should be addressed, perferrably by a tech trained by and familiar with that mfr. If you pack insulation in there, you change the heat signature of the box and all your clearances, testing and listing go out the window. Having said that, what you Do need to caulk is that log lighter gas pipe, both where it penetrates the metal firebox walls and the refractory panel. Pack mineral fiber insulation in the conduit around the pipe then use refractory mortar around the panel penetration. You must have a metering valve for this pipe and a separate shutoff within 6 feet in the same room and accessible.

You state you want to clean it (its new?) and "prepare" it for gas logs. What are you proposing to do? Do you mean you are planning on removing the log lighter pipe and installing a decorative gas log set?
Hearthman
 
#4 · (Edited)
Thanks for both replies,
What I meant by cleaning and preparing was, I just wanted to vacuum the area and get rid of any lint etc since its 3/4 years old unit and never been used(almost new).
By preparing I meant I wanted to buy a gas logs kit/package from Lowe's/Home depot and place it on the crate since I already have gas line hooked up with a control in the wall with a pilot position and run position. (Which builder showed us how to operate during closing?)
Somehow we never noticed the gap before (may be because it had mesh screen all the time) but I think home inspector should have caught it when we purchased our home 3 1/2 years ago and got it inspected.
I am not sure what to do now? I was thinking probably the installer didn’t install wall inserts correctly so I can remove a side and a back wall insert and reinstall it that probably will fix the gap.
I also noticed just below the damper on top of the fireplace box (where flue duct meets the box ring (duct housing) there was some Insulation visible which I tucked back in the ring but I am not comfortable with it.
Is there any insulation suppose to be in that area?
Any help, suggestions advice is greatly appreciated since I am not an expert in this area...as you can tell.
Thanks
Dhaniyal
 
#5 ·
Go to www.nficertified.org to find a technician near you. Have them inspect it before you buy logs. If you are contemplating installing ventfree gas logs, understand some fireplace mfrs. do not allow them in their fireplaces. There is a lot that goes into a proper installation so check with the NFI Certified pro.
HTH,
Hearthman
 
#6 ·
Thanks for your reply.
I contacted a NFI certified pro (there is only one in my area).
He says I need to contact the vender/contractor who installed the unit for the builder.
He also want to know the model and make of the unit but I can’t find any Tags or sticker.
Today I stopped by at one of the under construction home in a nearby subdivision and they have same fireplace installed since home is still in framing no sheet rock etc I was able to get the basic idea how this unit is installed and basic mechanics of it.
I also found that unit too had insulation around duct attach ring just below damper
(Its a little relief to know that is not a problem anymore).
I did not see any manufacturer’s data plate but saw a booklet there which says CFM.
I probably will go to builder's construction supervisor's trailer tomorrow and try to find if they can refer me to contractor who originally installed the unit.
In the mean time till I get any professional help I want to remove the wall inserts to verify that there is no debris underneath which may be causing inset to tilt.
Also I will get an idea if the box is tweaked/twisted (may be they dropped it during handling).I am saying this because I noticed bad workmanship at the under construction house.The top of fire box and area around unit inside framing was full of derris and wood cuttings, one can only hope they will clean the area before they put sheet rock around it.
What I like to ask you HEARTMAN,
Is it safe to remove those wall inserts?
Those look pretty easy to remove just one clip is holding them.
 
#7 ·
I'm not there so I cannot advise you other than to recommend only a qualified technician inspect and repair your fireplace. CFM was just bought out by Monessen or rather their brands, Majestic (which you have) and Vt. Castings. There is a rating plate in your fireplace. Look around the opening to one side such as the smoke shield, behind the mesh curtains or just inside above the refractory panels--its there. Note the make, model and serial number.

If you suspect there is combustible debris in contact with your fireplace, I suggest you do not use that fireplace until it has been inspected and cleared of any hazards.

If you tell us where you are, we may be able to locate a dealer who could help you.
HTH,
Hearthman
 
#8 ·
You are right, its looks like there is some kind of data plate on smoke shield but I have to play with it and use an insp mirror to get the info.
Once I get the all the info I'll post it.
I am in Houston.
 
#9 ·
As I contacted one the tech through the link you posted.
They said I have to contact the contractor who installed the unit. They also gave me info about a local installer who they said probably installed my unit too.
I contacted them and send them pictures of the gap and you won’t believe what type of reply I received (even after looking at pictures)
This is a contractor who installs and sell's fireplaces and logs. I am posting his reply but I had to remove their logo and Phone# since I do not want to get involve in any legal issue
Here's their reply;

“The gap between the brick panels is normal. There are 4 individual panels (back, left, right and bottom) and they are all replaceable individually. The gap there is designed for expansion of the panels when the fire is burned so there is sufficient room for the panels to expand and contract and not be in a bind which would cause cracking. The main thing to keep in mind is that the panels are not a safety device, they are simply in the fireplace to lend aesthetic appeal, and absorb the abuse when you burn a wood fire (i.e. logs shifting and making impact with the interior, users loading wood in the fireplace and making contact with the back or sides with the firewood). The main objective of the brick panels is to protect the interior metal walls of the firebox from being dented from usage of the fireplace.
The fireplace is designed to use 24" vented gas logs, of which we carry 3 different sets that would fit in your fireplace, Fireside Real Wood ($209.00), Fireside Supreme Oak ($309.00), and the remote control set Imperial Log Set ($525.00). We charge $60.00 to deliver and install the gas logs. You are more than welcome to come to the showroom and look at them in person, or if you can make your decision off of our website, you can simply call our main number xxx-xxx-xxxx and ask for an inside sales person, and they will be able to take your order over the phone.
If you have any other questions about your fireplace or possible gas log set, please do not hesitate to give us a call.”
 
#14 ·
What I meant; Hers the guy who installs fireplace units for builders and end customers and look at his comments and compare with the picture I am attaching.(look at the gap, this is same the picture I send him)
He is says this gap is ok without even looking at the unit.
He is probably the same contractors who's work I saw at an under construction home with all combustible debris on top and all around the firebox.
I understand thermal expansion but this gap is way too much.
If I push back wall of my unit just with a finger firebox is oil canning.
I am not even sure if any of the sheet metal is crushed/cracked or dented behind wall inserts.
 
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.