I gotta vent (Trane)

[tim fox]

First off, I work in house at a major airline in chicago.We got a new Intellipak 40 ton package unit last summer. This winter we were having intermittent flame failure issues. Normally I take care of all HVAC & R problems around here but this is a warranty item. We call the installing contractor to take care of the issue.The tech(and I use the term with all sarcasm)first just resets the honeywell 7800 series comb. control and runs away.Well, flame lockout happens again,go figure.Next trip out, the guy decides the wind is putting out the flame. In a sealed combustion unit when the wind is not even that bad lately,I don't think so.My boss gets pissed and asks me to look at it. The guy put some shop fabricated shroud around the combustion intake on the cover of combustion area. I took that off and threw it away.I attached my 7800 series display module and retrieved the fault history. It showed pilot failure every time.I hooked up my trusty dwyer manometer to the pilot gas train and got eratic readings.I took apart the pilot pipping and found some leak lock in pipes.I put a clamp on amp meter on the pilot solenoid wire and got a reading of 4 times RLA. Ding Ding Ding.....bad solenoid right?My boss doesn't want to get the part for me because of warrenty issues. Installing contractor(I won't name them and embarrass them)calls Trane out and the Trane guy never does any of the tests I performed and said there is a recall on the draft motor. This might be so, but that is not the problem or I'd show a fault of no pressure switch being closed.So we get a new draft motor and I tell the boss to be prepared to keep resetting the unit. He says that trane has taken care of everything.Whatever. Well what do you know,it trips again and the installing contractor's guy comes out and cranks up the gas pressure and puts a shroud ,like the one I threw away, back on. Did I tell you that when they installed this unit,they left it with bad o2 and co2 readings and a dirty filter warning LED on and I had to set this unit up myself.All I'm asking for is the OEM solenoid to repair this but Trane won't talk to me and the installer won't trust my diagnosis because I'm a lowly stationary engineer ( I spent a few years in a service van myself.)Anyhow, thanks for the chance to vent, I feel much better now except that I keep getting yelled at by the people that work in the cold offices over an isue I can fix if given the support I need.

[Airmechanical]

Originally Posted by tim fox

I put a clamp on amp meter on the pilot solenoid wire and got a reading of 4 times RLA.

what was the rated amps for the coil, what amp draw did you record?



.

[tim fox]

RLA .05. I was getting from 1.8 to 2.3 amps and erratic. Also was making a kind of gurgling sound.I want to add that after rereading my post it could be taken as me tooting my own horn and that's not my objective.I'm just frustrated that I believe I can fix this thing and am out of the loop do to warranty issues.

[tim fox]

Sorry make that .18 to .23.

[bob brown]

I had a design defect in an expensive printer. ($50k) I spent several mornings finding a work around solution. The manufacturer claimed it was my problem at first. When they sent in techs several times, because they did not believe that I could find the problem, I was eventually vindicated. It took the manufacturer 2 years to correct the problem. Because I was not a trained tech on the equipment, I was considered ignorant. Don't feel too bad, it happens to everyone.

[lodiroon]

Why not invest in a new solenoid and go ahead and fix it? It will save you from trying to satisfy uncomfortable people inside explaining why you can't get warranty support. I don't believe you will void any warranty on the unit, and you could always place the defective part on a back shelf for future use later. And don't gloat if this does take care of the issue, you won't get an extra dime, just personal satisfaction. That alone will be worth it IMHO.

[jayguy]

sorry about that (i'm a meatball too, but not in your area). find out the trane techs name. call the trane office. ask for someone else. make sure it is not any of the techs that have been out before. it is pretty common to have the office try to send the original tech out there, since he knows the "history" of the unit. but that does not always work very well as you can tell. keep going until it gets fixed or call the service department manager and ask him to have the next tech investigate the issue that you found. he may not care (i hope he does), but this will usually get him to find his "best" tech. if that does not fix it, call the service manager back. they hate repeat calls. you may be able to call another company as well. sometimes trane will pay another company to do some warranty work (there is a hell of a lot of paperwork to do...trane service tech or not...believe me!) if you can not get the local office to take care of it. you can also try having the installing contractor go through the new equipment sales office at trane. the new equipment guys really want to keep the local installing contractors happy, so they will sometimes work with the service dept.

good luck!

[duke of earl]

I know personally that Trane hires some techs who lie about their abilities and not every factory tech attends the training that Trane provides so you should not have high expectations of all factory techs. I believe Trane has some top notch men in the field but they also have some bad apples just like every other mechanical contractor in the world. I can see your pain on this and I would call the installing contractor and scream until he is sick of you. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[jimbob73]

The problem must be caused by the turbulence or vacuum created from the low flying aircraft as they land and take off, Backwash Effect

I actually heard this from a contractor service guy on a job a few years ago working on a Intellipak that had similar problem before/after he replaced everything.

Just another meatball

[brahern]

Wow, another stationary engineer....are you a Local 399 guy too?

[helper boy]

Did you check the pilot for excess soot?These units will soot up if they run an
extended low fire .also that sheet metal on the combustion is necessary
TRUST ME

[tim fox]

Thanks jayguy and jimbob I will try as you suggest. I don't want to come off as a know it all especially with the factories own techs. But I'm pretty sure all tests prove my dignosis.

[tim fox]

No brahern I'm not 399. We are stuck with the useless aircraft mechs. union. I'd take the girlscouts over these guys. But I digress.