Professional Member*
As someone has lived in worked in very different regions: federal licensing can not address codes, construction and climate. Oh sure, they can try, but it is like with Energry Efficiency and fighting off state legistlation that exceeds federal.
My last market, local inspectors drove around and swooped in like Kamakazees. Current market? Calling and telling them someone didn't pull a permit or doesn't have license gets a shrug and "So? Are you going to call the licensing board?"
As legislation gets stricter, so does apathy. My last market did not require licensing, this one has pretty high standards. State is actually really good about response but we have Senate bill to cut their force in half.
Quite frankly in last year, we have had to totally provide new and reinstall two installations just over 2yo. Pull, clean and reinstall with modifications five installations that 5-7 years old. Go head to head with a manufacturer sales sides, with support of tech support that we were offering to be witness to total disregard for installation and local codes. What is worse, they were all jobs permits were pulled and inspected (well, couple were in really nasty crawl spaces--we had them encapsulated just so we could do job right), had to deal with originating inspectors and "educate" them. Pure Apathy, I think I preferred with dealing with the Kamakazee, not exactly knowing the difference of codes from one village to the next so just exceeding all.
Professional Member
A small but positive step might be for the professional members on this website to be listed by location, with contact information. Then a homeowner, like me, who is looking for a truly capable technician and a quality conscious company, would have a way to make that connection.Originally Posted by ChuckHVAC
Regular Member
Don't see why not - they charge more than physicians!!!
Professional Member*
LOL! I think you made the point for why we don't want any more government involved in our industry.
Training is important!
Practical Training is a must!
Professional Member*
Never invite a vampire into your home!
Hack work from license contractors, both small and large, is the norm in the Fort Worth/Dallas area, rather than the exception.
Professional Member*
That's because neither of the two things that come from Texas are very good with HVAC; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyFSd...yer_detailpage
Training is important!
Practical Training is a must!
Professional Member
MORE GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE ANSWER!
here in California we have a hack epidemic.
the government comes out and says, "to be a contractor you need this,this,and this, ...EPA this , IRS that"
the average technician who has been in the field for years is scared to apply.
meanwhile, some guy who gets off the boat from Micronesia says "yeah yeah yeah, i got all that...26 years as a contractor in Micronesia"
then, he gets his Micronesian buddies to lie for him on the application,
....the honest tech doesn't have this.
if the contractor's board raises an issue, the Micronesian starts screaming "racism".
...and guess what?
even though the contractor's board requires 5 years experience, they cave and give the guy a license even though his real experience is less than a year.
and you think more government will help this?
________________________________
the inspectors out here are a joke.
they don't even know what the hell they are looking at.
the government keeps them dumb on purpose.
__________________________________
we had an American contractor guy who was getting information from old ladies, on jobs, then emptying their bank account.
despite numerous complaints, the board never pulled his license until they did a big story about him on TV.
we need more corrupt government?
__________________________________
the solutions are simple.
the government needs to give people a general test.
it doesn't matter if you've been in the field 5 years or 5 minutes, if you know your sht, you pass, and get your license.
if too many people (percentage) complain about your company, you lose your license.
if people want to hire contractors without checking credentials, that's their risk.
there's little reason for people to get burned by contractors, because in most states you don't have to pay much of anything until the job is done
Professional Member*
Really? Really?
With your chrome heart shining in the sun, long may you run.
Professional Member
That is what has caused a lot of the mess we are in."I do not like there should be more laws funny 99.9% of the time there is already a law to deal with an issue it just is not enforced then they add another to it not long from now we will all be criminals in some form or fashion.(maybe by design?).By the way they are going to run healthcare scary because if you look at everything else they do it is "great"for those who fit a cookie cutter mold sucks for those outside box speaking from experience.
Professional Member*
Oh come on, now! Don't tell me you don't have a sense of humor. You're just reinforcing my stand that you guys aren't really "gay" at all..........
Training is important!
Practical Training is a must!
Professional Member*
You live in NY state right? Don't they have a state lic. board for HVAC contractors? Sue the owner for payment and tell the owner to tell the installer to correct all the mistakes you told him or he will report the job to the state lic board and the installer will be subject to fines and or suspension or revocation of lic. Thank you, thank you very much
"I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
"I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
Sen. Barry Goldwater
Professional Member*
Well you know robo after all not all folks have a sense of humor or as "gay" as you are you don't you know especially on the gay thing so to speak yours truly included.Oh come on, now! Don't tell me you don't have a sense of humor. You're just reinforcing my stand that you guys aren't really "gay" at all......
"I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
"I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
Sen. Barry Goldwater
Professional Member
Went on a service call yesterday for a wonderful Quietside boiler and wish I had a camera. Never seen an install this bad! Here was the list of problems I found in my 45 min. there before just telling the property owner it needs to be ripped out and re-installed.
1) Gas piping in black pipe ran across floor, not secured either, with no drip leg or shutoff, ANYWHERE!
2) No automatic fill valve, just a manual ball valve.
3) Exhaust slopes downward the whole length of the run.
4) Boiler intake stubs out of mechanical room into basement area.
5) No expansion tank anywhere to be found.
6) System has three zones with one common return. Their are no zone valves the pumps just turn on when that specific zone calls. The boiler is piped with the pumps pushing into the boiler then up what was originally supposed to be the return lines so their is no control of the zone
Then the property owner refuses to pay because I didn't fix anything! Not my fault he's too cheap! I told him to call the original installer seeing as how it was put in 9 months ago, but he lost the guys number. Not the COMPANYS number but the GUYS number! Time to call the inspector for that city.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PCz_qk19Qw
Yes, lets keep feeding the beast, so it can have more litters.
Roy
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
George Orwell.
Professional Member
Before I was involved in HVAC I was in aviation as both military and civilian. In Hvac while working for other companies the same SOP was used and that was "Here is your truck and here are your calls. They never had a clue if I knew what I was doing and any advice from the "pros" was questionable.
In aviation an apprentice for their A&P license worked side by side with a licensed mechanic and everything was inspected by an A&P inspector. There was no "doing it my way" and I never heard of a short cut. It was by the book.
Government involvement doesn't have to be a bad thing but to involve the Gov at this stage of the Hvac evolution is like taming the wild west. It's also a lot larger than aviation. Some in Government might say let the market do it's job. Those of us that have been in Hvac for awhile might say Good luck with that. The market is predicated on cheap is better and the final judge on this is a no nothing customer.
It's interesting in this field counting how many excellent techs you've known compared with the others.
We are here on Earth to fart around ......Kurt Vonnegut
You can be anything you want......As long as you don't suck at it.
USAF 98 Bomb Wing 1960-66 SMW Lu49
AOP Committee/Professional Member*
might have been as you described years ago, but todat the final judge is your public reputation on referral websites and social media. Now, its not only a question of price, but one of did you make a repair that "stuck to the wall."
[Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
2 Tim 3:16-17
RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
Member, IAEI
AOP Forum Rules:
Professional Member*
Probably did not pay the other guy thats why he did not call him
Professional Member
We're in America.
Do you want to turn it into a police state than it already is now?
Look at all DWI injuries and death. Of that, how many of those were caused by unlicensed drivers?
If licensing was the sole factor, you would feel 100% comfortable riding with a stranger because he's licensed to drive.
Professional Member*
Since the majority of the "licensed" drivers on the road lack the intellectual capacity to safely operate a motor vehicle on the highway, no....
Professional Member*/ARP Committee
Yeah, the fact that my brother has a license, is proof enough that the test needs to be harder.
As mentioned before, it's not just the "law", it's enforcement.
I know a of entire counties that don't exactly have HVAC codes, because they don't even have inspectors.
"Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."
"Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."
"Just get it done son."
Dad adjusted
Professional Member*
We should not have to be licensed to do anything! All licenses are, are licenses for government to take more of our money by pretending to do something for our collective good.
We should get rid of all licensing and start handing out "not licensed" certificates to those who do things they don't know how to do properly. (This idea comes from the sequel to Atlas Shrugged called Atlas Snubbed) If every hack who screwed up a system were to get a "not-licensed" certificate and their name and photo were posted in prominent places for all to see, the hacks would either get better or not get any more work.
Licensing just punishes everyone in a lame attempt to regulate those who don't really care whether they are licensed or not.
Training is important!
Practical Training is a must!
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