HVAC to Refrigeration

[VTP99]

A HO may be satisfied if their house is cool, but food that is not cold or frozen will make your phone ring.

All good points here. You can thank the health departments for your last sentence.

[timebuilder]

All good points here. You can thank the health departments for your last sentence.

...or the folks who send their food back because it is a little "off."

[AtticAce]

Was it the Chicken or the Egg first?

Unless you understand how a machine is supposed to work from the factory or as it was designed in the field, troubleshooting is kind of impossible.

After 30 years, I would offer that probably 90% of the workers in HVACR have no idea how the systems they work on actually work exactly.
This is the reason we have a world of parts changers instead of true troubleshooters, and also the reason probably 90% of systems end up being replaced or wounded beyond recovery unnecessarily. A bad run capacitor is a bad compressor, a bad TXV is met with an extra 4 pounds of refrigerant, and lots of call backs are created, etc...

All that being said understand that if you don't understand how system are supposed to work, it will be very hard to figure out if the system as it stands ever really worked properly.

Many years ago as an idealistic young technician I did not understand that some folks have no clue what they are doing, just figured if you were working in the business you had to know what you were doing. This was until I ran into my almost Waterloo call; the refrigerated case worked to the customers satisfaction most of the time (so he said). The intermittent problem was indirectly witnessed via a chart recorder I installed in the case.

To make a long painful (profit wise) story short I finally discovered the compressor had been changed out with one from an air conditioning unit. The refrigerated case a R-12 unit, had a used 5 ton R-22 compressor installed. I later found out this was done by the store owners nephew who was in tech school.

This fellow had also installed a few condenser fan motors to run backwards, as well as replacing a 3 ton Lennox heat pump with 4 ton Janitrol cooling only unit. He was confused by the HP18-411 name plate.

I also came to the understanding that sometimes it is better to take a day off then to work for transplants from Europe or Asia if you want to make a living.

[timebuilder]

I have one rule that I have managed to pass along:

unless you speak the same language as a FIRST language as the customer, and you share a cultural norm, it is a bad idea to try and deal with them on a business basis. Leave them to the local practitioner who has bonded with them and understands their way of doing business.

For example:

A lack of understanding can breed fear and contempt; the customer thinks you are out to rip him off. It is VERY difficult to bridge that gap with explanations of needed repairs, or level of responsibility for the function of an entire system, once a simple, inexpensive repair has been made in the past.

Some folks grew up in a "bazaar" or "bargaining" culture. They feel it is their moral duty to bring you down on price. They don't recognize the American idea that I tell you what the price is, and then, you PAY that price.

[VTP99]

Sounds like someone has had to arm wrestle some foreigners. I guess I have a little advantage in that arena ( having traveled overseas ) I had to adapt to survive in those cultures. The basic code was " when in Rome act like the Romans ". Problem here is they seem to not follow that same practice. More and more of my customers are becoming foreigners. I have had to developed new ways to tend with this. One thing I have found to be true is once you have there trust the haggling seems to go away.

[AtticAce]

Sounds like someone has had to arm wrestle some foreigners. I guess I have a little advantage in that arena ( having traveled overseas ) I had to adapt to survive in those cultures (Vultures). The basic code was " when in Rome act like the Romans ". Problem here is they seem to not follow that same practice. More and more of my customers are becoming foreigners. I have had to developed new ways to tend with this. One thing I have found to be true is once you have there trust the haggling seems to go away.

Maybe I should have not left that statement just hanging at the end.

Not all from the other side of the ocean are impossible to deal with, and yes I learned how to play the game. At one time in my refrigeration carrier I had just about every Chinese restaurant in the China town section of Philadelphia as a customer I also had quite a few of the big players in the Greek community. I even had one of the largest Palestinian owned supermarket chains as a customer. We were 50-50 hvac and refrigeration.

One day I decided I was tired of grease, cockroaches, mice and rat crap, and the emergencies involved in refrigeration. Most of all the 20 minute repair and the 15 minutes of crying "Oh!, do you know how many breakfast specials I have to sell to make this up?" No and I really couldn't give a crap Gus.

I decided to go 100% hvac, bought a sheet metal shop and marketed for the jobs that most in my area cannot do, and the those that did, were mediocre at best.
We also took up hydronic heat, now days we mostly propose replacing traditional hot air with hydro air which allows most of the ducting to go away, allows the mechanical room to move away from the chimney, and replaces the traditional tanked hot water heater. Customers love the idea of tankless, which in some cases includes removing the DWH as well.

The customers who call us today are looking for a solution, most have been beat up by other contractors or have purchased dysfunctional new construction.
That is nice because they are not holding a coupon or looking for a deal, I discount installations by removing items, want $200 off no problem you get a T87F.

Btw, I have also traveled a bit out of the USA, I corrected your quote to better describe what to look out for when overseas.

[hurtinhvac]

Why on earth would you want to get called to a Taco Bell at 2:00 in the morning and wallow around on a greasy floor while wrestling with unmaintained equipment with a still pubescent "manager" getting upity and insisting that he/she needs this equipment yesterday...?

[mechAK47]

AtticAce and timebuilder-

How do I learn how the system is supposed to work and the sequence of operations? and I am new to the hvac field as well with only a year of experience but why would this not apply to the hvac world? Is it just easier to fake being a mechanic in HVAC?

also how do you get foreigners to pay full price in the end?

hurtinhvac- I want to go into this fields because I love the challenge and I love understanding how things work. I also want to have a reputation that if customers pay me the big bucks they will save money because there machines will not be breaking down at 2am. They will run so smooth the customers won't even know there running.

[ryan1088]

AtticAce and timebuilder-

How do I learn how the system is supposed to work and the sequence of operations? and I am new to the hvac field as well with only a year of experience but why would this not apply to the hvac world? Is it just easier to fake being a mechanic in HVAC?

also how do you get foreigners to pay full price in the end?

hurtinhvac- I want to go into this fields because I love the challenge and I love understanding how things work. I also want to have a reputation that if customers pay me the big bucks they will save money because there machines will not be breaking down at 2am. They will run so smooth the customers won't even know there running.

Start reading up. Manufacturers installation operation manuals are incredibly informative.

It's great that you have such high goals, but you have to be realistic that it takes a couple years to get to where you can be proficient, more less great.

I got thrown to the wolves, so to speak. Rely on the frequent visitors here, you'd be surprised what you can pick up and how fast you can do so.

[timebuilder]

Start reading up. Manufacturers installation operation manuals are incredibly informative.

It's great that you have such high goals, but you have to be realistic that it takes a couple years to get to where you can be proficient, more less great.

I got thrown to the wolves, so to speak. Rely on the frequent visitors here, you'd be surprised what you can pick up and how fast you can do so.

Learn something new about refrigeration every day. Keep the Dick Wirz book in the truck and read a page or two at lunchtime.

The customer relations problem is being able to determine IN ADVANCE which clients will have a problem with payment. From my perspective, if you get a cold call without a reference to come to a restaurant, it is because there is another company that will NOT come out, due to UNPAID INVOICES.

I am not a guy who wants that call.

For that reason, we have FEW restaurants we do. When someone can figure out an "Angie's list" for the contractor side, where companies can list their experience with customers, then maybe we will have a tool to use to keep OUR wheels on the road.

[hydra]

AtticAce and timebuilder-

How do I learn how the system is supposed to work and the sequence of operations? and I am new to the hvac field as well with only a year of experience but why would this not apply to the hvac world? Is it just easier to fake being a mechanic in HVAC?

also how do you get foreigners to pay full price in the end?

hurtinhvac- I want to go into this fields because I love the challenge and I love understanding how things work. I also want to have a reputation that if customers pay me the big bucks they will save money because there machines will not be breaking down at 2am. They will run so smooth the customers won't even know there running.

Noble goals, but Murphy's Law dictates that despite your best efforts, anything mechanical can and WILL break and most likely at 2:00am!

[timebuilder]

We used to say that Murphy worked in aviation.

The truth is, Murphy works EVERYWHERE.

[rcac101]

This is the way i learned. I got a fridge on the side of the road and took it apart, labeled all the components opened up my book and learned about them. How well do you know the refrigeration circuit? how good r u with your torches, and voltmeter do you have these tools how about a vacuum pump? My mission1 was to get all the tools then get my hands on some equipment then fix the junk gain confidence in your ability and sell your skills. Remember we r pulling heat out of an area and dumping it somewhere else, it is all heat removal . Heck i did that with lawnmowers, washers, driers,dishwashers,20 years later...just got mt hands on a Taylor shake machine $$$ a new skill to sell also looking into morgue refrigeration. I also spent time in the factory at Marine Air Systems years ago hope this helps.

[2sac]

Why on earth would you want to get called to a Taco Bell at 2:00 in the morning and wallow around on a greasy floor while wrestling with unmaintained equipment with a still pubescent "manager" getting upity and insisting that he/she needs this equipment yesterday...?

Because it has bought me a house, a boat, soon to be 2nd boat, a few trucks, all the tools I could ever want, all the food I could eat, the ability to take the ol' lady out to a 5 star restaurant and get treated like royalty, and has even got me laid a few times. How is walking into a dirty kitchen any different than walking into a dirty house?

[ryan1088]

It's the old phrase "if they call, you gotta go". If you don't, someone else will an then you might have lost a customer. Saving thousands of dollars of product is pretty high on the list too.

[timebuilder]

The guys with thousands in product on the line are usually able to pay you, too.

[hurtinhvac]

I guess I started way too late. If I was well versed in "R", icemakers, fryers etc...having started in my twenties; I guess I could run a call in the wee hours now and again. Being able to work smarter and not harder and all that...

I'm too old for that stuff at this point and am ok with it. I've long since acquired the house, trucks, nice cars for the Mrs. and the other spoils we enjoy...

Certainly didn't mean to knock the folks who do it or anyone who wants to take it on. More power to you, by all means; and I regret my previous post appears kind of flip upon further review.

[2sac]

I guess I started way too late. If I was well versed in "R", icemakers, fryers etc...having started in my twenties; I guess I could run a call in the wee hours now and again. Being able to work smarter and not harder and all that...

I'm too old for that stuff at this point and am ok with it. I've long since acquired the house, trucks, nice cars for the Mrs. and the other spoils we enjoy...

Certainly didn't mean to knock the folks who do it or anyone who wants to take it on. More power to you, by all means; and I regret my previous post appears kind of flip upon further review.

Don't sweat it. For me, work is work. I used to get upset when I was younger about having to go out in the middle of the night. Don't bother me anymore and I make sure it's worth my while

[carmon]

Why on earth would you want to get called to a Taco Bell at 2:00 in the morning and wallow around on a greasy floor while wrestling with unmaintained equipment with a still pubescent "manager" getting upity and insisting that he/she needs this equipment yesterday...?

Hang on there ...... been at it almost 30 years...... i know about 50% of what I need to know..... trade changing fast... as far as taco bell ..... well i do not like tacos.....

[timebuilder]

Our restaurants close after 10 pm, and the Co that owns them is 100% adverse to OT.

I was asked if I worked on impingers, and I said, "nope."