Professional Member
I'm sure ANY tech would agree that an engineer outta be a tech in the field for awhile before deciding they've got the wits about them to design something.Originally Posted by BadBozo2315
Is there a general Manufacturers Engineering Goofyness threads in these forums?
I KNOW steamers and ovens in my sleep. I'm very adept with Groen combis. I can deal with most basic combis - even Blodgett's old mess of a combi.
However, I'm still learning these Rationals and their complexities. NOBODY had them in our market (mid-Tennessee) when I was in the field, so I never saw one. Closest thing in complexity was the Convotherms - and just a handful of those.
Where I work now, there's 16 Rationals (maybe more). From the original CCC series to the SCCs (2010 models) - and everything in between. This place I work at now is like a field test site for ANY restaurant equipment.
Anyway, I do welcome the challenge of engaging with 'em when they break. That is usually the old ones. Thankfully we have spares to swap out, thereby allowing us some "quality" time with one when one fails and is brought to the shop.
What's funny is, for ALL a Rational can do, ALL they're used for in our kitchens is as steamers or ovens. I don't think any of our dozens of Chefs are interested in learning any of the "programmed" food preparation or what "combi" mode can offer them. With an expected sitting of "thousands" of faces to feed, I guess they don't have time for that and go with their expertise in the culinary arts.
Professional Member
...and they know what they're doing.
Tonight I got a to-go plate of Grilled Tuna, fresh from (I didn't care) with a spritz of (?)...and...(and I didn't understand the rest of it...so) blah, blah topped with blah-blah-blah. I said "WOW! That sounds good!"
WOW! It was good! F-A-R better than my microwave can do for me!
I suppose I should've posted this in the "Food & Grill Forum", but I didn't know what to say.
Regular Guest
> I'm sure ANY tech would agree that an engineer outta be a tech in the field for awhile before deciding they've got the wits about them to design something.
So I'm finishing up training on the (not even released yet) Frymaster LOV fryer series out in Shreeveport. The instructor points out a 3-vat unit, says put your hand on that clip that holds the (right or left -most, I forget) fill actuator onto it's valve, in preparation for removing and reinstalling said actuator if it ever failed. Everyone in the class tried and failed. They really wanted to see if/how we could do it, because they had no answer. You might be able to remove it with a long hooked rod, but you were not going to get it back in. However, if you were to use a slightly elongated clip, you would be able to reach it, and just pull it out, no problem.
I said quite loudly and to the instructors something along the lines of What The Hell Were You Thinking. Who's the engineer who designed this baloney?
Through one of the classroom doors comes this guy. The instructor says, here, here's that engineer, and runs away- he knew what was coming.When asked why on Earth he used the paticular type and size of the pin-no-human-could-reach, he said they were overstocked with those pins on the factory floor, and his boss insisted they use them up! I kid you not. I pressed him on it. He was serious! So for the the price of a $.99 longer pin, service techs were forced to choose to die gring an access panel on the end of the bank, or flip the bank upside down (!), and he got to use up his floor stock of small pins.
[sigh... Calm down now BadBozo...]
> What's funny is, for ALL a Rational can do, ALL they're used for in our kitchens is as steamers or ovens.
Absolutely! It's a crime. They get sold on these at the trade shows. All the new schools in our area nowadays *have* to have combi's- I guess it's a new law or something because they all seem to buy 2 or more.
BTW, if you company will spring for it, go to the Rational training up in Shaumberg, Il. Almost a week of very good hands-on training.
> WOW! It was good! F-A-R better than my microwave can do for me!
So, then, you're aparently single, yes?
Professional Member
Is that the rotary actuator style? They were building them when I was at the factory a couple of years ago. Said they would cut off a wooden broom handle.> I'm sure ANY tech would agree that an engineer outta be a tech in the field for awhile before deciding they've got the wits about them to design something.
So I'm finishing up training on the (not even released yet) Frymaster LOV fryer series out in Shreeveport. The instructor points out a 3-vat unit, says put your hand on that clip that holds the (right or left -most, I forget) fill actuator onto it's valve, in preparation for removing and reinstalling said actuator if it ever failed. Everyone in the class tried and failed. They really wanted to see if/how we could do it, because they had no answer. You might be able to remove it with a long hooked rod, but you were not going to get it back in. However, if you were to use a slightly elongated clip, you would be able to reach it, and just pull it out, no
All I've seen in the field have been linear actuator type of the gen 2 Frymaster lov fryers.
I have seen frymasters with the ATO system in the general market now. And 35lb frypot h50 models. And with basically the 3000 computer, but I haven't seen a full featured "AIF" (LOV) bank anywhere but mcd so far. Is that what you meant by "not even released yet"? Is there an expected release time for the full featured AIF (mcd LOV) to the general market (non mcd)?
The rotary actuator is a welcome improvement over the linear actuator that wears the valve stem notched bracket out so the valve doesn't close all the way. I've had to change a few of those.
They were talking about their KFC open fryer to replace the pressure fryers when I was down there, but I haven't seen anything of that yet either.
Professional Member
I'm glad someone finally clarified the RO issue. An RO does not use salt. That's an ion exchange filter system (water softner).
Every mcd I've been in working has a small RO system to feed the bun steamer, coffee machines, and mccafe. It is usually mounted high up the wall near the multiplex. It has like 4-6 small cartridge filters that are part of it. Plus a pressure tank.
The steamers still get crappy but remember, the steam may be clean but there is product in there. If you think they still get scaled up bad, you should see how bad a Taco Bell steamer gets scaled up.
Professional Member*
Had an emergency service call for one of those last Sunday. It broke and they did not have a spare. If you go to a really high-volume McDonalds they will have two of those UTX toasters. One they use, and one in the back for a spare in case the other one breaks.
Professional Member*
The other thing with reverse osmosis systems, is generally they don't remove 100% of the minerals. If you check with a TDS Meter (total dissolved solids) your incoming tds may be 300, and coming out of the RO may be 50.
Regular Guest
Yeah, 50 would be the highest I'd like to see out of an RO system working properly, for scale reduction. Course, when you get really low, and you have exposed probes, they may not conduct.
I had a kettle at a place, they wouldn't replace it, even though it would blow it's water charge out every week or so through a pinhole at the bottom.
We always replaced the water with distilled, and after a few weeks, I couldn't get the silly thing to believe it had a proper water level in it. Added a pinch of salt, and they were good for another week.
Regular Guest
Yes, that's the original linear acutuator, on the Gen *1* LOV's, in 2007 maybe?. Hey, I'm old.
They didn't have the gas ones ready then, I saw one in the test kitchen though. Looked like a real bear to work on.
Yeah, the rotory actuators are better.
I believe the AIF's are only McD. I've put in some JIB / ATO only units at burger kings, I think.
Professional Member*
I heard the same thing from Manitowoc, that they've had problems with people using RO water, and there are so few minerals the water level probe won't conduct.Yeah, 50 would be the highest I'd like to see out of an RO system working properly, for scale reduction. Course, when you get really low, and you have exposed probes, they may not conduct.
I had a kettle at a place, they wouldn't replace it, even though it would blow it's water charge out every week or so through a pinhole at the bottom.
We always replaced the water with distilled, and after a few weeks, I couldn't get the silly thing to believe it had a proper water level in it. Added a pinch of salt, and they were good for another week.
Professional Member
Great discussion here guys.
Also remember that distilled water is the only way to stop galvonic action in any body of water. So even a boiler with RO water feeding it will still have to have the corrosion inhibitor replaced as with any normal water supply.
If the water will conduct for the water level circuitry, it will conduct the naturally occuring galvonic currents. (Galvonic corrosion/electrolysis)
Boiler plate steel is not as weak as magnesium (corrosion inhibitor for most boilers), but its close. You'll have no scale but your boiler shell will still corode away.
Just no way around proper maintenance.
Professional Member
Yes, that's the original linear acutuator, on the Gen *1* LOV's, in 2007 maybe?. Hey, I'm old.
They didn't have the gas ones ready then, I saw one in the test kitchen though. Looked like a real bear to work on.
Yeah, the rotory actuators are better.
I believe the AIF's are only McD. I've put in some JIB / ATO only units at burger kings, I think.
Ive seen 2011 model gas (gen 2) units that were linear still.
Saw a sonic the other day with a ATO h50 wth 35lb frypots. But manual filtration
Professional Member*
I'm afraid to see these LOV's in ten years. The only ones I've worked on are at Mcd's. Some of the ones at the busier restaurants filter a lot of times in a day, and will take out a pump/motor in under a year.
In my opinion the electronics are a little overcomplicated. I've worked on a couple of Henny Penny LOV's in Mcd's that where out of warranty. The Henny Pennys seemed easier to work on than the frymasters, and seem to be holding up pretty good.
Regular Guest
Can't disagree. Those fryers up front doing french fries see a ton of filter cycles. The good thing for the pumps is that there's no chance of Frank-the-fry-filter-person leaving the drain valve and refill valve open, and taking a 20-minute break, with the pump just a chooglin away.
I've only worked on the older Henney Pennys at Wendys, and I loved how the contactors were right up front.
New Guest
What does it mean check S C pump??? on a SCC102G Rational combi oven
Professional Member
There's a pump that periodically empties the steam generator of its water. It's called the self-cleaning (SC) pump. When the controller calls for that function, it monitors its water level with the water probe. If the controller doesn't sense the water level drop after adequate time, it shows the error code that the pump isn't working.
The usual cause of its failure is limescale jamming it up.
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