Physical Appearance??

[timebuilder]

The New York representative of Employment Law Alliance, a professional legal organization based in San Francisco, said surging numbers of lawsuits surrounding personal appearance and style in the workplace highlight a growing debate about the right of employers to regulate appearance.

The rep, Louis P. DiLorenzo, made a statement in conjunction with the March 22 release of ELA survey results, which showed that 16 percent of those surveyed nationally believed they had been victims of appearance-based discrimination on the job. Half of employers did not have a policy addressing the matter, and DiLorenzo said companies should have appearance requirements that align with job duties.
DiLorenzo, a partner in the Syracuse-based law firm of Bond, Schoeneck & King, based his comments on the firm's experiences in its Albany, Buffalo, Syracuse, New York City and Long Island offices, which represent employers in labor and employment law matters.

On the surface, this may look like another symptom of a litigious society, DiLorenzo said in a news release accompanying the study results. But it goes much deeper than that as employers and employees struggle over the authority of management to ensure customer satisfaction versus an employee's right to, for instance, sport a nose ring and a tongue stud while taking orders at the local fast-food restaurant.

I would expect employers that send individuals to homes to perform their work, and act as salesmen/representatives of their company, to have no trouble receiving judicial agreement that regulating appearance is a critical aspect of employment with their company.

[hvac r us 2]

This is a very interesting thread. Tattoos are for sure more socially acceptable today than years before us. But there is a lot of stereotyping that goes hand and hand with tattoos.

I am heavily inked but pretty well known and successful. All I can tell you is, people will judge you...sad but true. I think it is more important that you are clean cut than the fact that you have a few tattoos. By this I mean hair combed, shaved, clean uniform and boots...this will go a long way.

Funny really, I have always been an athlete, I am in shape, I am a great dad to three little ones, make lots of money, good husband, etc...but yet people will judge you because you have tattoos.

Even the tattoo parlors tend to cater to the low class, just because you like the ink doesn't make you are the dredge of society. But, lets be honest...first impressions mean a lot to the general public.

My advice...be clean cut, smile, be polite and knowledgeable. You will be okay.

[allstar08]

Intriguing post, and I am drawn to post. This subject comes up a lot in this field. It has been my experience that first impressions are huge and you should do everything in your power to make a good one. As the job market becomes tighter and more competitive you will need every weapon in your arsenal to nail down a good job. This being said wear a long sleeve shirt for your interview and ask for long sleeve uniforms. I would air on the side of caution and let know one know about your art until you feel it is safe.

I would not hire you based on tattoos but I might think about it.

[thump_rrr]

I've always wondered why the skilled trades attract a certain type of person.

Where I live, many of the companies employ techs who are ex-cons and drug addicts and I've always had a huge problem with it. I'm 24 years old, clean cut, and I've never had any run-ins with the law. Nor do I drink, smoke or use drugs. Co-workers ask me what I do for fun if I don't drink, smoke, or use drugs. I tell them that I'm going to school part-time to get a bachelors degree and they laugh.

It's really quite sad.

This isn't to say that everyone with tattoos is a crackhead. But in my experience, it seems as if those with the most tattoos also happen to have criminal records and a history of substance abuse.

If I'm working on new construction (installs), this isn't a huge issue for me. I'd be working on my own and drive my own vehicle to the job site. However, if I'm doing service work and driving a company van, I can't help but wonder if my heavily tattooed co-worker in the passenger seat has a "stash" on him.

If we were to get pulled over and the van searched, I'm sure as hell not going down with him. Cops today don't screw around either. This is why I have a problem with it. When did it start getting popular for companies to stop doing background checks and drug tests?

Perhaps I worry too much and need to find a government job that actually performs extensive background checks.

Oh well.

I don't know where you live but where I'm from I don't know of any one tech that fits that description.
There are some techs that I know that are pretty heavily inked although mostly not visible to the customer.
I do not know of any one tech that is a drug user/abuser or at least doesn't have the outward appearance of being under the influence.
If someone wants to party like a rock star on their time that's their business but they better be in top shape in the morning when they get in the truck.
Out of the 4 of us where I work I'm the only one without any tattoos.
My boss has 3 non visible including his sons name in Kanji, his astrological sign and the Italian and Canadian flags.
The other tech that works with us has quit a few but the only visible one is a Celtic cross on his forearm.
My apprentice also has an inspirational saying in Kanji on his back which is again not visible with a shirt on.
I believe that your outward appearance such as being neatly dressed, a friendly hello, and a positive attitude will do much more than any tattoos on how a customer perceives you.

[timebuilder]

I don't know where you live but where I'm from I don't know of any one tech that fits that description.
There are some techs that I know that are pretty heavily inked although mostly not visible to the customer.
I do not know of any one tech that is a drug user/abuser or at least doesn't have the outward appearance of being under the influence.
If someone wants to party like a rock star on their time that's their business but they better be in top shape in the morning when they get in the truck.
Out of the 4 of us where I work I'm the only one without any tattoos.
My boss has 3 non visible including his sons name in Kanji, his astrological sign and the Italian and Canadian flags.
The other tech that works with us has quit a few but the only visible one is a Celtic cross on his forearm.
My apprentice also has an inspirational saying in Kanji on his back which is again not visible with a shirt on.
I believe that your outward appearance such as being neatly dressed, a friendly hello, and a positive attitude will do much more than any tattoos on how a customer perceives you.

You know what I know. Many techs I work with in commercial have tattoos. They are some of those "great people" I mentioned.

You know it, and I know it.

But, it's as if this is "our secret."

Most owners of nice homes think of individuals like my niece and her multiple "sp**m donors" when they think of tattoos.

So, this is a disconnect between the many good people that you and I know, and the types of people that our CUSTOMERS know.

This means that this can be a sticking point in the minds of some customers. In their minds, they not only want a clean cut tech, but the idea of being clean cut extends to an "ink free" tech.

Anyone considering a field where they are constantly in contact with strangers who may not perceive these designs as "typical" for a great person might stop and think before they ink.

[WhoIsThat?]

While we're on the subject, what motivates a person to get a tattoo?
What is that tattoo supposed to tell others (what it actually tells others is a different issue)?

[timebuilder]

While we're on the subject, what motivates a person to get a tattoo?
What is that tattoo supposed to tell others (what it actually tells others is a different issue)?

Scroll down about halfway on this page:

http://www.yourplasticsurgeryguide.c...oo-removal.htm

[WhoIsThat?]

women are more likely to seek tattoo removal than men and may be motivated by the social stigma associated with tattoos and negative comments made by others.
Not many women in the HVAC field, I'd guess.

Their answers were compared with responses to a similar survey conducted in 1996.
So attitudes are constant for at least 10 years. We need the attitudes of others, though.


for. . .
to feel unique or
independent or
to make certain life experiences stand out.

against. . .
getting a new job or career,
problems with clothes, being stigmatized or
marking an occasion, such as a birthday, marriage or
newly found independence.

So independence is a reason to get a tattoo and to remove a tattoo.


Employers do not want independence; for this they hire consultants. They want people to follow orders and not embarrass the company.

[coolwhip]

Hey, why in the hell not?...with the way society is going ya might as well have tats, a giant afro, stretched lobes, a big ol plate in your bottom lip, a bone through your nose, a stretched neck, painted finger nails, shrunkin heads hangin from yer belt and two right chuck taylor sneakers.

[timebuilder]

I think you have to read betrween the lines a little when wordks like "independent" and "unique" are used.

A more frank assessment might be rebellion against authority, love/hated of self, and exhibitionism.

Here is another page:

http://clinical-psychology.suite101....ut_who_you_are

[WhoIsThat?]

I think you have to read betrween the lines a little when wordks like "independent" and "unique" are used.

A more frank assessment might be rebellion against authority, love/hated of self, and exhibitionism.

Here is another page:

http://clinical-psychology.suite101....ut_who_you_are

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisoc...ality_disorder
Now it gets interesting.
CEOs are generally sociopaths, so if the tattooee somehow manages to get hired and happens to be a sociopath, he might become the company CEO. The trick is to get through the front gate, so to speak.

The Mask of Sanity is a classic book on this subject, and I think the airline passenger who climbed on top of the drink cart and did something very offensive was an example. The cart had to be declared a bio-hazard.
"fantastic and uninviting behavior, with drink or without"

[adamste81]

my original post was about would it be hard to find a job with 3 small tatoos on my forearm. I think its interesting how this post has taken off like it has, and gone way beyond what I thought it would. I do appriciate everyone taking the time to reply but I do want to say this. Whoever said that tattoos are associated with drugs, jail and alchoholism is completly ignorant. That is like saying every white man who shaves his head is associated with the skinheads and the neo-nazi movement.........they are both complete generalizations and ignorant statements

[timebuilder]

my original post was about would it be hard to find a job with 3 small tatoos on my forearm. I think its interesting how this post has taken off like it has, and gone way beyond what I thought it would. I do appriciate everyone taking the time to reply but I do want to say this. Whoever said that tattoos are associated with drugs, jail and alchoholism is completly ignorant. That is like saying every white man who shaves his head is associated with the skinheads and the neo-nazi movement.........they are both complete generalizations and ignorant statements

I trust that you are a young guy, and have not lived long enough to know how most people who own homes think of people who are likely to take on a tattoo.

I wish you could meet my niece and her friends. EVERY ONE of them has tats, and not one of them is worth a s***.

While I have reason to believe you are nothing like my niece's friends, no one knows that except you and me. When you show up at a customers door, they don't think "you," they think "them."

And, that's the problem with tattoos. To not recognize that would be truly ignorant.

[WhoIsThat?]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/artic...01-000029.html

and it might have some purpose, otherwise it would have been bred out of humans a long time ago.

[adamste81]

I trust that you are a young guy, and have not lived long enough to know how most people who own homes think of people who are likely to take on a tattoo.

I wish you could meet my niece and her friends. EVERY ONE of them has tats, and not one of them is worth a s***.

While I have reason to believe you are nothing like my niece's friends, no one knows that except you and me. When you show up at a customers door, they don't think "you," they think "them."

And, that's the problem with tattoos. To not recognize that would be truly ignorant.

I find it so interesting that in your original reply to my post you defend military tattoos. you put that unless it is a marine tattoo that reminds you of your service days that i should really consider getting them lasered off. Ho w do you not know that what i have is just as important to me as a guy who was in the marines?? Why is a military tattoo acceptable but maybe a relative who passed away, having their name and date of death is not just as important to me. I know you do not know what I have, and I enjoy our respectful "argument" about this point, but I dont think you can say one tattoo is ok and another is not

[hvac r us 2]

my original post was about would it be hard to find a job with 3 small tattoos on my forearm. I think its interesting how this post has taken off like it has, and gone way beyond what I thought it would. I do appriciate everyone taking the time to reply but I do want to say this. Whoever said that tattoos are associated with drugs, jail and alchoholism is completly ignorant. That is like saying every white man who shaves his head is associated with the skinheads and the neo-nazi movement.........they are both complete generalizations and ignorant statements

I am really in trouble, I shave my head, have earing's and tattoo's! ROFL

[coolwhip]

I am really in trouble, I shave my head, have earing's and tattoo's! ROFL

Do you have a bone through your nose?...if not, you should get one.

[WhoIsThat?]

If you had a favorite tattoo, and you somehow found on the Internet that not having this tattoo would increase your chances of employment by X%, would you remove it if

X was 5%, so your employment chance went from 5% to 10%?

X was 5%, so your employment chance went from 90% to 95%?

Suppose you pay big bucks to have it removed and then you lose your job a week later?

It's clear that you have to find a CEO with tattoos.

[hvac r us 2]

Do you have a bone through your nose?...if not, you should get one.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!! Yeah...maybe!

[JR185]

my original post was about would it be hard to find a job with 3 small tatoos on my forearm. I think its interesting how this post has taken off like it has, and gone way beyond what I thought it would. I do appriciate everyone taking the time to reply but I do want to say this. Whoever said that tattoos are associated with drugs, jail and alchoholism is completly ignorant. That is like saying every white man who shaves his head is associated with the skinheads and the neo-nazi movement.........they are both complete generalizations and ignorant statements

Thank you for taking what I said completely out of context and calling me ignorant.

What I said was: "This isn't to say that everyone with tattoos is a crackhead. But in my experience, it seems as if those with the most tattoos also happen to have criminal records and a history of substance abuse."

I work in Vegas (Sin City), there IS a direct correlation between the number of tattoos my co-workers have and a history of crime and/or substance abuse. You can't call me ignorant until you've worked in this town around these types of people. I have and I'm going by what I see.

You don't see many accountants, teachers, or police officers with tats all over their body. Why should the skilled trades be any different? Perhaps the reason why techs are so poorly paid compared to some other professions is because we're viewed as uneducated rednecks. The customer's perception of tradesmen needs to change in order for us to be taken seriously. This is the very reason why kids are pressured to go to college rather than trade school.