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I can't believe it... Seven years and not doing startups.
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This. Knowing ___ as well, will make you better at ___. The best don't limit themselves to one discipline and can do both proficiently and professionally.Originally Posted by Stamas
The problem I run into with some service techs is that there are whiny primadonnas that have no desire to be really good at installation because they perceive it to be "beneath them".
Don't pick the fly crap out of the pepper.
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Good Post.
Our company keeps installation and service very separated. At least they let install do their own startups and charging.
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At the company I work for the installers do the complete installation. Set gas pressures, low voltage wiring, static pressure testing, explain t-stat to the customer, combustion analysis, ect... If I owned a HVAC company, I wouldnt hire a service tech. if he couldnt install (neat, clean, proficent work). On the flip side, I wouldnt hire a installer if he has no service experience. They kinda go hand-in-hand in my opinion.
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We do retail commercial.
In the past four years, we have hung ONE air handler. One.
RTU's? We do them all the time.
Companies have us quote an install now and then, but we rarely get the bid. We have insurance, and we are all citizens. We pay our guys a real wage.
Many, many times I go to a store for a PM, and find new split system equipment. The store manager tells me that ONE GUY spoke English.
That's who gets the installs I see.
So, we can't hire a guy based on his ability to install equipment. Our mandate is service. The freaky install work that I see...well, you get the picture.
[Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
2 Tim 3:16-17
RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
Member, IAEI
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Banned
Gotta be able to do both, in order to understand what is going wrong.
I can install to code, and bend metal to order. I was a sheet metal mechanic for a time at a large multinational company where the title sheet metal mechanic meant you were in charge of all the installers and were the interface with the GC and site foreman.
Lot of prideful and blind folks on this site who seem to think, "Service techs are gods and all other folks in the field are dogs."
I hate it, but I have done everything from change out transmission line transformers, to replace light bulbs, to running fiber optic cable 6'+ underground, to set and calibrate 14' shears capable of cutting to 1/64" of an inch to HVAC/R work, service, installs, and anything else that needs to be done.
Every facet of a trade has it skill set and mastery. A master sheet metal worker would run circles around any service tech who knows how to install to code. Just as two of the members I know here in RL, are gurus of HVAC/R knowledge, so are a few of the installers you all seem quick to spit upon.
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Did you really thinking I was "spitting on" installers? Where do you think I started out? I started bending metal, sealing, and insulating, then piping and wiring, then starting and servicing, then service and T&B... Now I'm doing everything and anything they throw at me, but I have NEVER forgotten where I started and I am NEVER too proud to get my snips and fairmonts out of the toolbag! I constantly refer to my experiences as a duct-guy and part-time pipefitter, and I believe that it puts me head and shoulders above my closest colleagues who lack that fundamental trench-time.
Don't pick the fly crap out of the pepper.
Banned
Hmm, I could go Southern and say that when you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps....
But no, I was referring t several folks who called installers all kinds of names, impugned upon their abilities and made it seem as though anyone who is an installer is unworthy of any respect.
One of my first call for my favorite ex-employer was being sent out with an installer, because I could deal with the high voltage. Spent a good 15 minutes trying to figure out where the high voltage was.
Had LV going to controls, had LV going to burner and fans, and LV to compressor. ( It was a residential oil furnace and AC swap out)
And I worked for the multinational after I did HVAC/R service.
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I am not the proverbial yelping dog. A misunderstanding is all it is, then.
Don't pick the fly crap out of the pepper.
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Check the wall of shame for some installs I have found from the crews I described.
'Nuff said.
[Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
2 Tim 3:16-17
RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist
Member, IAEI
AOP Forum Rules:
Professional Member *
I don't bad mouth installers. They are doing a job that I really don't care to do. I have seen many that work circles around me during an install. I have not seen to many that could actually trouble shoot. But there are some and they did not want to be service techs. They liked there 8 hr. days and being home with their families on holidays. But I am the one they called when in did not work. I do not consider my self as a prima donna. I'll do just about any job I am asked to do, unless it has to do with sewage. Its like I told my boss I'll do fresh water, I'll do condensate or loop water, but I do not do dodo.
Banned
True enough.
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dodo remark
what a funny line meoberry , reminds me of the time i lost the coin toss to climb in a large , very old condensate receiving tank to unblock the pump inlet.....there was still 18" of rusty brown water in it that wouldn't drain , up to the manhole.....sooooo , after removing the obstruction to the pump inlet and inst. a new screen , when i got out of the tank it looked i had been swimming in a lake of the aforementioned DO-DO.....Thank goodness there was a shower facility on site and a borrowed maint. uniform.....JackI don't bad mouth installers. They are doing a job that I really don't care to do. I have seen many that work circles around me during an install. I have not seen to many that could actually trouble shoot. But there are some and they did not want to be service techs. They liked there 8 hr. days and being home with their families on holidays. But I am the one they called when in did not work. I do not consider my self as a prima donna. I'll do just about any job I am asked to do, unless it has to do with sewage. Its like I told my boss I'll do fresh water, I'll do condensate or loop water, but I do not do dodo.
B[COLOR=a friend is one who knows us , but loves us anyway
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Not saying installing is beneath me at all, just wish each person with their respective job titles could perform that job duty. I am simply wondering why some people at my company, not yours, can do both, and some people can't even do their own title, make sense? I see the majority of the people on this board can do both really well. I am trying to figure out why I can do both but not a single installer at my company, can barely do their own without some assistance from service. Hypothetically, if you were previously a service tech, and became an installer, you would at the minimum, know how to make that piece of equipment run at the end of the day.our install is extremely weak in low voltage wiring, however that is part of an install at a house.
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[QUOTE=stonewallred;11151702]Hmm, I could go Southern and say that when you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps....
But no, I was referring t several folks who called installers all kinds of names, impugned upon their abilities and made it seem as though anyone who is an installer is unworthy of any respect.
One of my first call for my favorite ex-employer was being sent out with an installer, because I could deal with the high voltage. Spent a good 15 minutes trying to figure out where the high voltage w
Had LV going to controls, had LV going to burner and fans, and LV to compressor. ( It was a residential oil furnace and AC swap out)
Exactly what I've been trying to say, in the meantime while you were babysitting this installer, your company lost even more money by you not being out on a service call and billing out time and material!
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Do they even have an interest? Do they want to learn control wiring? Or are they actually unable.
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A big fat no to all three in my companies situation, and obviously a handful of other companies represented here. Our installers don't go to classes after work or read any literature that pertains to the equipment either, it's just easier to dial 911, and then I get to do all of the control wiring for them that day no matter what else is going on for my schedule. I always thank them for giving me so much ot for the year!
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I install some, they are missing out on the best part of the job.
What is the point of doing all that tin work and gas and water piping if you can't make the thing go??????
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It's called a paycheck.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
Mark Twain
NEVER STOP LEARNING.
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yep lolIt's called a paycheck.
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