School shootings

[jpsmith1cm]

To the OP's question, what can be done to stop this. I believe that these people have no self respect and as such have no respect for anyone else either. I feel this is just another example of the break down of the family, little or no father influence. I don't have a clue as to how we, as a country, renew the family structure. But I think it also falls in line with the divisivness of society in general i.e. for the most part we are no longer defined as just "Americans" but by race, ethnicity, religion, etc, which just serves to seperate us as a nation, and I feel this is being done by design although I can't put a finger on by who exactly. But the further we go down this road the worse it will get. Gun control is not the answer but I thnk it will get a hard push from this lastest tragedy.

People control, SELF control rather than object control is the answer.

Some kook in China just STABBED 22 kids in a school. Don't try to tell me it's the guns.

[kamersoutdoor]

I'm not following you guys. In order to keep the crazies out we need to give psych evaluations to the kids inside.
Then what? We start removing children from the schools and begin therapy in order to be sure they don't grow up to be criminals. So your solutions are to have the govt give us all psych tests to weed out the bad apples in order to make society safer.

Welcome 1984!

You beat me to it!!!!
I hate when people complain of big government, and in their next breath, want to impose more regs.
My dad votes repub because he hates big government, he then (being a christian) wants laws and regulations imposed on society because of his religious beliefs. This creates big government!!!!!!

I think a lot of problems these days result from head doctors!!!!

sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note

[kamersoutdoor]

Nope. We already did it routinely until the 1960's.

You are probably too young to remember.

I did a job for a customer not too long ago who (under head doctor supervision) dressed her boy as a girl (goes to school like this)
Her doc said he had the wrong chromosomes
He will comit suicide by the age of sixteen
These new liberal doctors have changed since the "good 'ole days"


sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note

[jpsmith1cm]

I'm not 100% sure where I stand on the whole "head doctor" thing.

There are some people that are crazy. Period, end, full stop. These people, for the good of society, should be locked away and NEVER permitted to see the light of day. They're dangerous.

I also think that these people are a very tiny, almost vanishingly small minority of all people.

There are some people that get a little "mixed-up" and need some help getting their heads right. I've had some friends go through some rough times where they needed a little help. I'd trust them with my life today, let alone trusting them with a gun.

All people with mental problems aren't crazies that need to be locked up.

[pacnw]

I'm not 100% sure where I stand on the whole "head doctor" thing.

There are some people that are crazy. Period, end, full stop. These people, for the good of society, should be locked away and NEVER permitted to see the light of day. They're dangerous.

I also think that these people are a very tiny, almost vanishingly small minority of all people.

There are some people that get a little "mixed-up" and need some help getting their heads right. I've had some friends go through some rough times where they needed a little help. I'd trust them with my life today, let alone trusting them with a gun.

All people with mental problems aren't crazies that need to be locked up.

I will agree with this and TimeBuilder's posts.

I will also say, young people are no longer connected to reality!!!

Parenting is gone and now they are your friend. No discipline, no punishment, no consequences, no losers, and there is a pill for everything that ails you. While this is akin to the gun not being to blame, video games are an influence in these occurrences. In the game you hit reset, no one actually dies and you turn it off and go back to normal life. These individuals do not know how to separate life from fantasy. Some feel there is no other way, but that all comes back to parents not being involved enough in their kid's lives to teach, guide and ultimately be responsible for them.

You are no longer able to be labeled "something" because it will hurt the self esteem. If you have a problem you need help from a professional, not the TV advertisement and drug companies pushing the "pill" treatment.

I, too, am a law abiding citizen and posses firearms of all types. The fact I own them does not make me a danger to anyone but those that would do harm to me, my family, friends or those around me. In that case I am willing to take the burden of doing the correct thing for the situation and circumstances.

The China thing was brought up on CNN and just because nobody died it was used to show how bad guns are. Believe me, I or anyone capable with a knife, can inflict deadly harm on the public. You may need to be in closer contact to the victims, but it can be done.

The weapon is never the issue as it needs a human to use it to inflict the damage- gun, knife, car, bomb, chemical, pencil, scissors, rocks and so on.

You must be willing to blame and punish the person, not the weapon. Until this time you only reenforce the fact that there are no bad acts and you will be on TV.

[jpsmith1cm]

Another thought...

We should stop releasing the names of the shooters.

I think that, in some perverse way, these guys know that they're going to be some sort of celebrity and they want it.

They also shouldn't be included in the death toll if they die or are killed as part of the crime. Once they commit an act like this, they're no longer human in my book.

[NY2GA01]

I had to post this

[energy_rater_La]

wow. didn't realize I'd be attacked for voicing my opinion.
I'll leave y'all to it, as expressing a one's pov obviously isn't
what this thread is about at all.
this has truly been an eye opening,educational experience.

best of luck.

[2sac]

As of 12-13-12 there have been 514 murders in Chicago. The city with the strictest gun laws in the U.S.. As a teen in the 80's, we had an armed police officer and metal detectors in high school because of the gang violence, and on one ocassion I remember a shotgun being discharged at a football game after school hours. The high school also had a special place for the problem kids. They were not allowed to integrate with the rest of the school. Profiling works.This shooter from what I read was a goth kid with a personality disorder, so he was already diagnosed with a social disorder. Someone dropped the ball. Who knows, maybe the guns were in the house so his mother had protection from him???
The Amercan populus has no value for life anymore. We value material objects. We play video games in which we kill people and/or commit violent acts against them. We have no consequences for our actions. Our leaders lead by example, and one questions why we are on the road we're on?? Instead of promoting Honey BooBoo, Housewives of Where ever, or any reality show on MTV as real life, maybe the media should focus on things more positive.
We may never be able to stop this type of violence, but there is NO reason we, as a society, can't be prepared for the next time. Sticking a sign in the ground that says "Gun free zone" apparently doesn't work as well as the people in charge of the schools thought it would.
My heart goes out to all those involved...

[timebuilder]

You beat me to it!!!!
I hate when people complain of big government, and in their next breath, want to impose more regs.
My dad votes repub because he hates big government, he then (being a christian) wants laws and regulations imposed on society because of his religious beliefs. This creates big government!!!!!!

I think a lot of problems these days result from head doctors!!!!

sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note

If your father wants new laws that mimic his beliefs, then I have to talk with him. He is dead wrong.

Government is incapable of implementing God's will, whether it be a Christian, Muslim, or some other perspective, because we are sinful creatures. If it was God's will to bring His order to the Roman occupation of Jerusalem, Christ would have made every Roman soldier drop dead, and no one would have been left to crucify him.

Instead, we are to turn away from temptation, not legislate it away, because that is impossible for us.

[timebuilder]

All people with mental problems aren't crazies that need to be locked up.

When I was a kid, they were locked up until they were well.

[timebuilder]

wow. didn't realize I'd be attacked for voicing my opinion.
I'll leave y'all to it, as expressing a one's pov obviously isn't
what this thread is about at all.
this has truly been an eye opening,educational experience.

best of luck.

I don't see anywhere here where you were attacked. Your ideas are misplaced, yes, but no one had attacked you for them.

[ga-hvac-tech]

wow. didn't realize I'd be attacked for voicing my opinion.
I'll leave y'all to it, as expressing a one's pov obviously isn't
what this thread is about at all.
this has truly been an eye opening,educational experience.

best of luck.

E_R_LA... do not take it personally... ARP is a ROUGH place. Thin skinned folks do not do well here...

You are as welcome as anyone else... just a lot of 'tuff' conservatives who believe in traditional approaches who hang out here.

[ga-hvac-tech]

As of 12-13-12 there have been 514 murders in Chicago. The city with the strictest gun laws in the U.S.. As a teen in the 80's, we had an armed police officer and metal detectors in high school because of the gang violence, and on one ocassion I remember a shotgun being discharged at a football game after school hours. The high school also had a special place for the problem kids. They were not allowed to integrate with the rest of the school. Profiling works.This shooter from what I read was a goth kid with a personality disorder, so he was already diagnosed with a social disorder. Someone dropped the ball. Who knows, maybe the guns were in the house so his mother had protection from him???
The Amercan populus has no value for life anymore. We value material objects. We play video games in which we kill people and/or commit violent acts against them. We have no consequences for our actions. Our leaders lead by example, and one questions why we are on the road we're on?? Instead of promoting Honey BooBoo, Housewives of Where ever, or any reality show on MTV as real life, maybe the media should focus on things more positive.
We may never be able to stop this type of violence, but there is NO reason we, as a society, can't be prepared for the next time. Sticking a sign in the ground that says "Gun free zone" apparently doesn't work as well as the people in charge of the schools thought it would.
My heart goes out to all those involved...

EXCELLENT post!

This one will go around a few other forums as well as Emails. THX!

[chaard]

E_R_LA... do not take it personally... ARP is a ROUGH place. Thin skinned folks do not do well here...

You are as welcome as anyone else... just a lot of 'tuff' conservatives who believe in traditional approaches who hang out here.

This isn't in the ARP....yet.

[ga-hvac-tech]

This isn't in the ARP....yet.

Correct... however behavior here is more or less ARP behavior.

My mistake for the detail...

[chaard]

Hey timebuilder. I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you again.
I'm actually a little peeved that you said we need to go back to the '60's style of treating mental patients.

My aunt had a nervous breakdown when her husband divorced her and took custody of her kids. She ended up in the hospital, drugged and given shock treatment. She wasn't the same for years. She didn't deserve that kind of treatment. All because she had a nervous breakdown.

Btw the shooter had aspergers according to the brother. Should we lock up all kids with autism/aspergers?

[2sac]

My brother was born in 1968, diagnosed with slight retardation and a severe behavior disorder. He also had rickets as a baby, and wore coke bottle thick glasses. My folks took care fo him as best they could and I spent much of my childhood babysitting him. I recall him almost drowning me in the pool. Not because he wanted to, we were just kids screwing around and he just didnt't know when to stop. At the age of 14 after stealing 4 cars if I remember correctly, along with countless other issues, my folks shipped him off to San Marcos TX to a school that dealt with kids like him and could give him the 24hr supervision he needed. My uncle and cousins were in Austin and spent alot of time with him. My grandfather spent months in TX with him and my folks were down there all the time. At 18, the facility he was at could no longer take care of him because he was an adult. The facility near the house had a 10 year waiting list to get in. He was back home for a year before my father found a suitable place for him. The other option was to have him locked up in a state mental facility, and there was no way that would happen. He moved to a catholic run facility in Jefferson WI, and gave them a run for their money. Got into plenty of mishaps and was taken out of the general population and moved to a farm with another kid who also needed 24hr supervision. They took care of the animals. Eventually he had stole another car and management had changed at the facility. The new guy wanted my brother out of there, and gave my father one year to find a place. By now he is 34yo. My dad found a place close to home. A group home that offered the 24hr supervision. He was starting to mellow ou by now. At 35 he had a stroke and passed away.

chaard, If my brother didn't have 24hr supervision, he could have clearly killed himself or somebody else. If someone would have put a gun in his hand, he would have shot it. He had no sense of any consequences. No sense of cause and effect. When I was a kid after doing something bad, he would say to me "Paulie, You always tell me to think twice, before doing something. I guess I didn't think twice" My brother needed to be "locked up" He needed to be separated because nothing good came out of him being around people. You know what's kind of funny. The only place he behaved was in church. He loved going.
My nephew may or may not have aspergers. He's 10 and has been treated for about 5 years now. Looks like his meds are finally dialed in and he's alomst a joy to be around.
As far as locking kids up. If they need it they need it. Sugarcoating things to appease the parents and the public is wrong.

[zxcb]

From another forum, pretty much sums it up:

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why. It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

[rcamp]

imo guns are not the problem as they are only a tool that has to be used by a person what i think needs to be done is swift and acute punishment for anybody that uses a weapon of anykind in act of a crime. guns are way to easy to get if any person wants a gun then they will get one legally or illegaly. But would a person kill another person if they knew for a fact that they would be hung on the court house steps the day after being found guilty or would they think twice before commiting a crime?