To Unionize or Not To Unionize

[Lash]

3. Last, but not least, there is the little matter of a contract I signed with the union. Basically, this contract states that they provided me an education and now I have to work union. Otherwise, they can and will sue me for the cost of my education. Since I don't have $15k laying around, I'll stick with the union.

How long have you been out of the apprenticeship?

[Lash]

Yes Mr. Smith, your level of experience looks good, and the time under your belt meets the requirements for our employ in this private shop. Now we have only one last question: Have you ever belonged to a labor union?

Maybe in Texas.

[jpsmith1cm]

5 years.

[Lash]

5 years.

Then you don't owe the whole $15k....lol. Look in your contract.

[TechIntense]

It's funny how everybody gets so fired up about all of this. Where I live there are plenty of good union and non-union techs. Believe it or not some of the non-union guys make more than the union guys. They also sometimes get better benefits. That's not a rule, but it happens. I always say that I work for my customer. Have integrity, first! Give your customer what they are paying for.

[jlw1980]

I chose SMW and am very happy I got in.

For me it was a no-brainer. I have a family.

I could've worked non-union residential starting out at like $8-10/hr. but my family means more to me than that.

I am a commercial/industrial service apprentice and have been doing it for only 6 months and already make over $15/hr plus bennies.

Journeyman scale at my local is $30.35/hr plus bennies. The techs at the company I work for make $80,000/yr or more.

I know money isn't everything but right now it's hard to find this type of opportunity in this economy.

[Dowadudda]

so if you apprentice through the UA, you actually sign a contract tying you to the UA if you chose to leave? That is interesting. I never knew that.

I am a white ticket, so I never went through any of that. Boy I tell you, that's a pretty sticky decision I'd have to make if they ever asked me to sign something like that.

I don't believe in signing any sort of agreement about my employment.

[zzonko]

so if you apprentice through the UA, you actually sign a contract tying you to the UA if you chose to leave? That is interesting. I never knew that.

I am a white ticket, so I never went through any of that. Boy I tell you, that's a pretty sticky decision I'd have to make if they ever asked me to sign something like that.

I don't believe in signing any sort of agreement about my employment.

scholarship loan agreement.....to offset the cost of your apprentice schooling....it disapears a little each year and after 5 years ? its gone, and its only payable if you leave the union, its only fair the training costs alot of dough and they want to make sure you stay

[jpsmith1cm]

Sorry, it has been 10 years since signing the agreement. The details are a little fuzzy.

I was 22-23 at the time and had basically been told that the union was the be all, end all as far as employment was concerned.

Signing the contract was not optional and I really didn't have time to ponder it. A big pile of papers were dropped in front of all of us and we went though, page by page, line by line and signed all of them.

As I said, I am not entirely opposed to labor unions, just trying to present a different viewpoint.

I feel that the unions encourage a group mentality and discourage competition between members. The idea that we all are the same. Welders are welders, service guys are service guys, etc.

If you have been in the field long enough, you know that is untrue. There are great techs, good techs, and warm bodies to put on a call until you can get someone there to fix it.

I also feel that unions encourage a distance between the contractor and the employee.

There is also a socialist mentality that is brewing just under the surface of all labor unions, and I find that un-American. Personal opinion.

[absrbrtek]

I see that in the fitters here. We are NOT fitters. Plenty of testosterone and competition floating around in service.

I feel that the unions encourage a group mentality and discourage competition between members. The idea that we all are the same. Welders are welders, service guys are service guys, etc.

[HVAC_Grad]

so if you apprentice through the UA, you actually sign a contract tying you to the UA if you chose to leave? That is interesting. I never knew that.

I am a white ticket, so I never went through any of that. Boy I tell you, that's a pretty sticky decision I'd have to make if they ever asked me to sign something like that.

I feel like you, Dowadudda. I hate the idea of signing a contract, especially when I am at the beginning, where I have many, many options. The 'base' pay-scale thing also sounds like a turn off. I am obviously not one of the best at this point, but I can guaruntee I won't be one of the worst...

I think I'm just going to look for a good non-union job to build a couple years of experience through, and then in the future if it seems like the best option, go after one of those pretty white tickets.

[jpsmith1cm]

As far as the base pay scale, apprentices get raises every 6 months. Those raises amount to an additional 5% of journeyman rate. It does add up quickly.

[jpsmith1cm]

While on the topic of the unions, I'd like to throw a few more pennies out for thought, here.

Education. How can the union claim to have the best education when they never covered basic refrigeration? Charging charts and other charging methods? Manuals D and J?

I'd never even heard of Manuals D or J until I came here. Still haven't seen either.

Propaganda. I understand the whole "Do it right the first time" thing, but we just lost an apprentice who thought that he was gods little gift to us. He had about 6 years in, total, was in his 4th year. He thought that every non-union service guy was an idiot, no matter how good he was. He didn't have a card, so he was dumb.

If we're going to say that we're the best, then we need to PROVE it, then say it, not the other way around.

[Lash]

I feel like you, Dowadudda. I hate the idea of signing a contract, especially when I am at the beginning, where I have many, many options. The 'base' pay-scale thing also sounds like a turn off. I am obviously not one of the best at this point, but I can guaruntee I won't be one of the worst...

I think I'm just going to look for a good non-union job to build a couple years of experience through, and then in the future if it seems like the best option, go after one of those pretty white tickets.

Really.....I wouldn't take any advise from people on the internet who don't even live anywhere near me. The best thing for you do is to talk to people in your area.....both union and non-union. Each state, country, town, local, whatever is different. You need to get all of the FACTS and weight out the pros and cons for yourself.

[Lash]

While on the topic of the unions, I'd like to throw a few more pennies out for thought, here.

Education. How can the union claim to have the best education when they never covered basic refrigeration? Charging charts and other charging methods? Manuals D and J?

I'd never even heard of Manuals D or J until I came here. Still haven't seen either.

Propaganda. I understand the whole "Do it right the first time" thing, but we just lost an apprentice who thought that he was gods little gift to us. He had about 6 years in, total, was in his 4th year. He thought that every non-union service guy was an idiot, no matter how good he was. He didn't have a card, so he was dumb.

If we're going to say that we're the best, then we need to PROVE it, then say it, not the other way around.

Maybe that's something you need to take up with your local. Not every one is run the same as yours. We, for one, have a GREAT school system in place. Apprentices are graduating with more and more skill....which is actually quite scary for me...lol. We have a lot of smart, motivated, young people in the area.


Honestly, when was the last time you actually went to a union meeting (besides going to vote on your contractual raise)????
I'm guessing it's been a pretty long time, therefore you lose most of your rights to b**** IMO. If you want to make a change, this is not the place to complain to make things better.

[Dowadudda]

Sheet Metal construction workers and supermarket refrigeration service techncians are 2 entirely different animals. No one could draw any comparisons about how our eyes see things different.

[teamkudzu]

What is the difference with working in a right to work state for a company who has some unionized techs yet you are not union?

[TechIntense]

I would agree that you definitely need to talk to people locally to find out what the pros and cons of each option are. My advice would be to check contractors and find one you would like to work for, then figure out how you can get a job there. I would generally advise against the residential market. I worked in residential for a few years before going into commercial/industrial service. The salary cap is much higher in the commercial field, union or not. Also, the work is much steadier.

[neophytes serendipity]

Education. How can the union claim to have the best education when they never covered basic refrigeration? Charging charts and other charging methods? Manuals D and J?

Those bases were covered in my neck of the woods.

[jpsmith1cm]

Too many assumptions were made during my apprenticeship.

I believe that argues for a standardized curriculum, but that is a topic for another discussion.