What Should a Good HVAC School Teach

[allenrobinson2269]

I just entered the HVAC program at Union County Vocational and Technical School in Scotch Plains, NJ. The course cost a bit over five-thousand dollars which is about twenty-thousand less than Lincoln Tech in neighboring Union, NJ.

The program runs from April 4, 2013 until mid June, and then starts again in August and finishes in April of 2014. So during that ten-month period what should be available for me to learn? The skills I would like to be able to develop some level of competence would be servicing and troubleshooting refrigerators and cooling systems and HVAC-R system design; especially design, construction and installation of sheet-metal ducting. I have no issue with flexible ducts, but like the skill required to do metal fabrication.

In New Jersey we have a lot of sheet-metal fabrication shops, and I intend to use them once I am able have my own offices and workshops. I want to learn this part of the trade because knowing how to design an efficient and beautiful system demonstrates craftsmanship.
I am hoping to get some of this in class and shop work. I might try getting a job in a sheet-metal shop for a year or so to get really good at building ducts, but I don’t want to get away from the compressors, condensers and evaporators.

My particular interest is in maritime and offshore HVAC applications. Operating in remote areas in the oilfield requires being skilled at every aspect of a trade or profession.
Any information on this would be great.

A little about my background; I am retired from the government, have a BA in industrial safety, and my wife is a CPA. I want to start an HVAC company so I can have something I can teach my son and maybe daughter.

Can someone in the business tell me how valuable the formal training will be and how much will have to be learned in the field, and If I am taking the right approach to my goal?

I read on one site that a good school should have a list of companies waiting to hire their students. I also understand that being hired might mean 10 bucks an hour (or less) until you can start getting out there making a profit for the company.

[cajunhvac75]

The votech program that I went to was entirely too focused on theory and laws. I honestly could have saved the money that I spent on the classes and just bought the books required for them. We got so far into theory and equations it was ridiculous. In my rookie opinion, you will learn everything that you need to know through experience, reading and taking manufacturer's classes. Hopefully your school will be more hands on than mine was, but it still won't be as good as real field experience. I certainly wouldn't discourage anyone from going to school, this was just my personal experience. Hope your wife makes good money or you have quite a nest egg to raid, because you will not be able to support your family with helper's wages. I started in February at $10/hour, but my only regret is waiting so long to take the initial financial hit and start gaining experience.

[timebuilder]

I would only be concerned with sheet metal if you want to be a sheet metal installer. That means working in new buildings, or refits of old buildings. I would not imagine there is a lot of room in that market segment for added capacity in the sheet metal side of the business.

If you want to work, get qualified as a commercial service guy. I have picked up a pair of snips less than 10 times in the past six years. Even then, only for a few minutes at a time. I have modified ductwork three times.

Get an edge by learning about electricity on your own, because it is often poorly taught, and understood even less. You will be miles ahead of most other techs if you develop a comfort with electricity.

Next, fully understand the vapor compression cycle, and latent heat. Learn how airflow through coils affects performance. Learn to think in terms of temperatures, and not pressures.

Don't expect to open your own shop anytime soon. I got the impression from your post that you think you will be nearly an expert in ten months.

Maybe, in ten years.

[jeep6275]

haha, i had a whole response typed up and deleted.... then i saw your post, timebuilder... it was almost identical.

i will say that the amount of sheetmetal you do, depends alot on where you work. i measure transitions some, and actually make ductwork on occaision..... but most of the other guys no so much. at my shop its more about what you are willing to try.

[allenrobinson2269]

Pretty much I am in a situation where I need to learn a trade and can afford to make small coin for a while. I retired from a government job early because i had to travel too much and I have little kids. I am only 43 and my wife has an exceptionally good job. I will work for helpers wages no problem for as long as I need. The thing about helper's wages is at some part you know enough you don't have to work as a helper anymore. My objective is to use contractors as a source of experience and start my own business. I could sell soda-water if it was recessionproof. Anotehr area folks should look at is the maritime and oilfield application of HVAC systems. If you are in Lousianna you can get work on a platform. We have tons of ships up here in Jersey. My sister and brother in law own a pretty good size construction company in Texas and I want to do some business down there. I am set up pretty well in New Jersey and Texas. I hope I can get on with an older established contractor adn buy out his business when he gets ready to retire. I have no intetino of making a "career" with a company. This is strictly a business ownership prospect for me, and from a lot of what I have read that is the way to go. It seems the guys who enjoy the business are guys who are owner technicians.

[allenrobinson2269]

No sir. No intent of becomng an expert in ten months. Really what my wife and I would like to do is buy out a guy when he would like to retire and keep his business running. I would work for lower wages if a guy had common sense, understood the importance of courtesy, and treated folks the way he would like to be treated. On the other hand if he thinks because he has a contractor license he can treat his hands like dirt, I will put him in his place and find another job. I am an honest guy and require others to be the same with me and respect goes with honesty. Ten years sounds abut right to get really good.

[LKJoel]

Get an edge by learning about electricity on your own, because it is often poorly taught, and understood even less. You will be miles ahead of most other techs if you develop a comfort with electricity.

X10

Your biggest leg up in this trade will be electricity

[allenrobinson2269]

Here is quetion for the old guy. Do you believe that after gaining seven years of good experience can a person make a viable living in this business in the NYC area?

[uniservice]

I don't know about NYC, but out here on the left coast, the problem with being an owner-tech, and if you treat your customers well, you won't get to retire when the time comes. The phone still rings, and you are still the go to guy when the refer craps out, or the furnace sticks on, or the blower starts making a noise. The majority of my phone calls on the home line, and my cell phone, start with "I know that you're retired, but my (fill in the blank) just stopped working, and I was wondering if you could come take a look at it." If you do like you say, and take care of your customers, you inherit them for life,,,,just not for the time that you are in the biz. Call it a career, but it becomes your life. Only if you are dedicated to your customers, and to the trade.

[allenrobinson2269]

I can't really see being in a business and not treating customers as well as I can. If I have to die as the go-to-guy I will live with that. I have a 3 year old son who can take some of the slack if things work out that well in 20 years. I hope he will go into engineering or some related field and would like to run a business. If not hopefully I can find a tech who is honest and wants to take the calls. Who knows school dosen't start until April so I still know absolutely nothing about HVAC or R.

[madhat]

Mine taught me to stay focused, study hard, and to know how to find the solution to the problem. Or loose money by goofing off and paying for a semester again. This lesson has served me well in my career.

[allenrobinson2269]

I wanted to tell the young guys that one of the best places for HVAC is the Navy. Ships are huge ventelation systems for the most part. The really big ships we have today and even a small firgate have complex systems and sailors work on those systems. You could get a good bit of experience and your future education paid for by the navy.
If someone is in highschool they should not smoke or drink, learn all they can, play sports, graduate, join the Navy, go to college after teh Navy, get an engineering degree, go to work for someone or start a company.

[jtrammel]

Good luck finding someone who's about to retire and wants to sell their company. Most if not all the hvac shops in my area are family owned and will be passed on to a family member. 10 years experience minimum before starting your own shop.

[timebuilder]

I will work for helpers wages no problem for as long as I need. The thing about helper's wages is at some part you know enough you don't have to work as a helper anymore.

That's when your boss promotes you. Are you thinking of promoting yourself from helper to owner? That is a fantasy.

My objective is to use contractors as a source of experience and start my own business.

That will take more time than you are imagining now, in my experienced opinion.

I hope I can get on with an older established contractor adn buy out his business when he gets ready to retire. I have no intetino of making a "career" with a company.

At this point, you need to ask yourself if you would be happy making a career at a company, because that is exactly what could end up happening. If that idea is abhorrent to you, I'd say ask for your tuition back.

This is strictly a business ownership prospect for me, and from a lot of what I have read that is the way to go. It seems the guys who enjoy the business are guys who are owner technicians.

If this is only a business ownership prospect, then open a MacDonald's franchise. Your only real expertise there is management and customer service, after Hamburger University.

You have to love the work, first and foremost. If you think you want to learn the work so you can take over an established company, I think you may be setting yourself up for failure. I say that because it sounds as though:

a) you are not aware of the amount of time and effort it takes to become proficient in the trade

b) you believe that a few years at a company will expose you to all you need to know to run that business, and I can tell you with certitude that idea is not often true, and

c) you picture yourself as an owner first, and not an experienced technician.

Few others may be as direct as I have been, but I believe this is what you need to hear, and to think about, based on your stated objective. I have no other information about you on which to base advice, so it is based only on what you have posted.

That's my

[allenrobinson2269]

In that case I will have to create a company from the ground up. That is what I plan to do is pass my company on.

[timebuilder]

In that case I will have to create a company from the ground up. That is what I plan to do is pass my company on.

At your current age, you should be able to do that by age 70.

[allenrobinson2269]

I would love for someone who has been around a while talk about how to do something rather than talking about why not to do something. Not starting a business really isn't an option for me. That is te direction I am headed regardless of the field. The reason I chose HVAC is it is a need everyone has (Shelter) and it requires skill and has a lng learning curve but the training is accessable. I compair this to other things I could have done or that some of my friends have done. I thought about going back to law school, but way expensive and getting your foot in the door is rough; really long hours and little credit for anything you do. It takes at least as long to gain competence in the law as HVAC. I worked on my MBA but it's all theory; You would still have to have a skill or product to sell, or find a job with all the other MBAs out there. Teaching is the same way as the MBA. Pretty easy to go to school but crappy job market. Electricians in Jersey get laid off a lot, and I'm really not interested in automotives as a career. My old contractor told me unskilled unlicensed trades are a waste of time, and should be left to illegals. So I decided on HVAC. I like science, drafting, electricity, and welding so it kind of makes sense.
the business side of the corporation will be handled by my wife who has an MBA and works as a corporate CPA for a large company that actually manufactures AC units and controls.
My objective over the next ten years is to become ultra-skilled. I may work for a while and go back for my electrician's license just to do my own hookups and inspections. This isn't my first time in school. I went the university route to begin with and have two BAs in English and industrial safety managment. I neet some practical art now.

[timebuilder]

I I like science, drafting, electricity, and welding so it kind of makes sense.

What is your present skill level in these disciplines?

the business side of the corporation will be handled by my wife who has an MBA and works as a corporate CPA for a large company that actually manufactures AC units and controls.

Has she managed technicians, or worked as a service manger? That's the expertise needed to run an HVAC business. Everything your wife knows can be farmed out to payroll and compliance firms.

My objective over the next ten years is to become ultra-skilled. I may work for a while and go back for my electrician's license just to do my own hookups and inspections. This isn't my first time in school. I went the university route to begin with and have two BAs in English and industrial safety managment. I neet some practical art now.

I agree that automotive is a dead end. I also did not go to law school, because there are too many lawyers, so no demand. I worked instead as a flight instructor, commercial pilot, and adjunct instructor in aviation science on the college level.

So, you can trust me when I say that you must love what you do. I'm not sure you can get there from school alone. If I had been you, I would have taken a job as a unskilled helper to get a look at what goes on daily, to see if I liked it. Then, only some time is lost. Before flying, I spent MANY years in railroad signaling and automotive, and I had repaired many an AC system in everything that moves, so this was not a big jump, for me.

So, to summarize:

if you love to integrate your hands and mind, enjoy physical work, being more of an electrical detective than a filter changer or new furnace quoter, and you are willing to let OTHERS be the judge of when you actually become "ultra skilled," you can establish yourself as a working technician.

You can't go from school to owner. If that is your plan, I'd say forget it.

You CAN go from school to helper to technician to great technician to owner.

THAT is not a ten year journey. Just so you know.

[beshvac]

I was in the same position as you and your posts are almost mirror identical.

Got engineering degree, Got Navy experience, Never went to VOCAB school but grew up mechanically and electrically inclined.

As others-don't get hung up upon bending metal-you can get a sheetmetal shop to do that for you cheaper than whatever you can learn to do it. However, they only know the sizes you give them and you are not going to learn that at Vocab and you won't learn that OJT either working as a helper.

Your wife as a CPA isn't going to make or break you as a viable business. I worked with CPA's for years and as long as your debits match your credits and you keep track of your expenses-you are fine. You have to GET the work......which leads itself to the largest "problem" with this industry..... Wifey is also gonna start telling you...YOU NEED TO MAKE MORE MONEY.

You have to compete with less knowledgeable companies to be "competitive".... Your duct design, equipment, manpower might be outstanding...however...Bubba will do "the same job " and it $2k less than you. You might eventually end up with the work to rip out Bubba's handywork.....

Yes this is an industry everyone needs! And yes this is an industry that NOBODY has successfully been able to "franchise" and its is only because every job is custom to do it right and YOU CANNOT teach anyone in a few years to KNOW what YOU KNOW.

The bright future is now the industry is starting to add much complication to equipment with communicating controls....modulating furnaces, etc. that is starting to seperate the men from the bubba's...but bubba can still go in and replace a whole ECM motor when only the module was bad.

[timebuilder]

I have to agree. In residential, Bubba is the enemy to making a good living. In fact, in Pa, there is no HVAC license. We did adopt a "home improvement contractor law," but no one in Harrisburg will say if replacing a defective unit is considered a "home improvement" or a "maintenance repair."

They say you have to hire a lawyer to find out.

So many reasons to love the commercial side.....