Need help with final decision

[Zomby]

First, thanks to everyone who has helped me get to this point. Your knowledge and assistance has been extremely helpful!

I have narrowed it down to Trane or Bryant and would appreciate your thoughts on the 2 systems.

My hose is as follows:

1,500 s/f single-story ranch over a crawlspace.
Mid Missouri
3 ton condenser - 9 SEER
75,000 btu gas furnace

Trane contractor suggested the following:

XR15 2-ton single stage condenser - 16 SEER
XV95 2-stage, variable speed gas furnace
"matching coil"
TCONT thermostat

Bryant contractor suggested the following:

127A 3-ton two stage condenser - 16.5 SEER
96T 2-stage, variable speed gas furnace
CNPV*3717A** indoor coil
T6 Thermostat


As you can see the biggest difference I see if the condenser unit. Trane being 2 ton single stage and Bryant being 3 ton two stage. The Bryant contractor said a 3 ton two stage would serve me much better than a 2 ton single stage.....

As far as I know, they both did pretty much the same load calculations.

Any thoughts would be more than appreciated!

[BaldLoonie]

If a 2 ton unit can cool the joint, buying a 3 ton 2 stage is like buying a very expensive single stage. Might as well not let it run on high. Low is around 25,000 BTUs and should handle it assuming 2 ton is the load.

[second opinion]

If a 2 ton unit can cool the joint, buying a 3 ton 2 stage is like buying a very expensive single stage. Might as well not let it run on high. Low is around 25,000 BTUs and should handle it assuming 2 ton is the load.

X2

[Zomby]

I did want to add that of the 4 contractor visits, only Trane suggested a 2 ton. The others suggested a 2.5 ton. When I told them I wanted to go to a 2 stage, that is why he bumped it up to 3 ton because the 127A doesn't come in 1/2 ton increments.

Also, the price is almost exactly the same between the Trane and Bryant.

[jtrammel]

I would get a 2 Ton 2 stage if the load is 2 tons, you can always fix the house to match a smaller unit if it won't keep up. The temp that is used to do a load calc is a temp that the area only gets to about 10% of the summer so it would run in low stage saving you $ the other 90% of the time.

[Zomby]

I would get a 2 Ton 2 stage if the load is 2 tons, you can always fix the house to match a smaller unit if it won't keep up. The temp that is used to do a load calc is a temp that the area only gets to about 10% of the summer so it would run in low stage saving you $ the other 90% of the time.

So you are suggesting I ask the Bryant guy to install a 2 ton instead of a 3 ton? Just asking here, but why would 3 of the 4 say 2.5 tons if they all did similar load calculations?

[jtrammel]

The input numbers are left to the person inputting's discretion, most contractors are sooooo scared of under sizing that they will fudge the inputs which results in a larger size.

[Tommy knocker]

If the load calc came to 2.5, assuming that's about where your at, a 2 will get you there most of the time. MOST of the time. So it's really up to you. Are you gonna be ok with a 3-5 degree slide on a 95 degree day? What about 2 weeks of 100+? That's where you come into the equation. If 2.5 is the load 3 will work without the slide on a max design day but you will give up some efficiency. A 2 ton you will get max efficiency, and better comfort most of the time but. So you have to add your 2 cents now and make the call.

[Zomby]

The input numbers are left to the person inputting's discretion, most contractors are sooooo scared of under sizing that they will fudge the inputs which results in a larger size.

I know the Trane guy was adamant about sticking with a 2 ton unit. I questioned him several times and each time he said he was confident in his load calculations.

If the load calc came to 2.5, assuming that's about where your at, a 2 will get you there most of the time. MOST of the time. So it's really up to you. Are you gonna be ok with a 3-5 degree slide on a 95 degree day? What about 2 weeks of 100+? That's where you come into the equation. If 2.5 is the load 3 will work without the slide on a max design day but you will give up some efficiency. A 2 ton you will get max efficiency, and better comfort most of the time but. So you have to add your 2 cents now and make the call.

I guess we need to throw away this years heat wave huh? This area gets hot and humid, but we probably average 15 days over 95 degrees during a "normal" summer. So considering the fact that the Trane rep (Who I had a lot of respect for as he was extremely knowledgeable) was adamant about 2 tons, maybe I should listen to what he was preaching and go with the 2 ton.

[jtrammel]

I know the Trane guy was adamant about sticking with a 2 ton unit. I questioned him several times and each time he said he was confident in his load calculations.



I guess we need to throw away this years heat wave huh? This area gets hot and humid, but we probably average 15 days over 95 degrees during a "normal" summer. So considering the fact that the Trane rep (Who I had a lot of respect for as he was extremely knowledgeable) was adamant about 2 tons, maybe I should listen to what he was preaching and go with the 2 ton.

Have a blower door test performed just so you know how much and where you could improve and if the 2 ton won't get it done, which I feel it would, then you can go about improving the home until it will get the job done whether its 80F or 100F. Even if it won't keep it 74 when it's 95F outside the humidity will be so low from continuously running it won't feel uncomfortable at 78F inside

[leaker2]

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[54regcab]

The input numbers are left to the person inputting's discretion, most contractors are sooooo scared of under sizing that they will fudge the inputs which results in a larger size.

+1 !!

[54regcab]

Have a blower door test performed just so you know how much and where you could improve and if the 2 ton won't get it done, which I feel it would, then you can go about improving the home until it will get the job done whether its 80F or 100F. Even if it won't keep it 74 when it's 95F outside the humidity will be so low from continuously running it won't feel uncomfortable at 78F inside

+1

[Zomby]

Have a blower door test performed just so you know how much and where you could improve and if the 2 ton won't get it done, which I feel it would, then you can go about improving the home until it will get the job done whether its 80F or 100F. Even if it won't keep it 74 when it's 95F outside the humidity will be so low from continuously running it won't feel uncomfortable at 78F inside

I didn't have a blower door test.

Whats the warrenty on the units? I know certified trane contractors have 10 year. If bumped up to 3 ton just based on what you said about a 2 stage, it might be just a sales man. How close were the calculation to the thresholds of being a 2 vs 3 ton? And of course they can just fudge em too. what was previously installed? Did it hold up on peak temp days?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

I really am not sure how close the calculations were, I guess I should have asked for them. The old unit that is currently working, on the hottest days seemed to run pretty much all day during the height of the heat, say from 10AM to 8PM. The old unit may not have been producing 3 tons anyway for all I know. The last 4 years it has sounded like a jet engine.

I am not sure how to convey this, but we had to keep the temp close to 70 degrees or it didn't feel cold enough. But in the evening/overnight it felt too cold at the same temps. I am guessing that is a humidity issue right?

I am just afraid to go from 3 ton to 2 ton even knowing the new technology is far superior to what I have.

Like I mentioned, my house is only 1500 s/f on one level. It is well insulated in my opinion and I think it is pretty much "draft-free".

Maybe a 2 ton, 2 stage is the way to go as a 3 ton 2 stage may be overkill. ???

[RyanHughes]

XR15 2-ton single stage condenser - 16 SEER
XV95 2-stage, variable speed gas furnace
"matching coil"
TCONT thermostat

Best to get the model number of the coil to be installed. May or may not be a Trane coil. There are third-party coils that are approved "matches" in the AHRI directory.

I would look at the XR16 or XL16i as comparable units to the Bryant 127A. Proper sizing is very important, 2-stage or not. I'd be curious why the Trane contractor arrived at 2 tons and the others 2.5-3 tons if they all supposedly did Manual J's. There must be some differences in their input values or design temperatures, or some didn't do a load calculation and sized off of square footage/existing equipment. Something to look into. As BL mentioned, if a 2 ton unit will do the job at design conditions, then that's what I would get -- nothing more. Longer runtimes achieved with properly sized systems are better for the equipment itself, energy efficiency, and your comfort. An XL16i with an XV95 and matching Trane coil would be a very nice system.

[Zomby]

Best to get the model number of the coil to be installed. May or may not be a Trane coil. There are third-party coils that are approved "matches" in the AHRI directory.

I would look at the XR16 or XL16i as comparable units to the Bryant 127A. Proper sizing is very important, 2-stage or not. I'd be curious why the Trane contractor arrived at 2 tons and the others 2.5-3 tons if they all supposedly did Manual J's. There must be some differences in their input values or design temperatures, or some didn't do a load calculation and sized off of square footage/existing equipment. Something to look into. As BL mentioned, if a 2 ton unit will do the job at design conditions, then that's what I would get -- nothing more. Longer runtimes achieved with properly sized systems are better for the equipment itself, energy efficiency, and your comfort. An XL16i with an XV95 and matching Trane coil would be a very nice system.

On the AHRI sheet the coil model number is listed, I just can't find the sheet now. Thanks for your advice!

[dan sw fl]

I guess we need to throw away this years heat wave huh?
This area gets hot and humid, but we probably average 15 days over 95 degrees during a "normal" summer.

So considering the fact that the Trane rep (Who I had a lot of respect for as he was extremely knowledgeable) was adamant about 2 tons, maybe I should listen to what he was preaching and go with the 2 ton.

What would someone from Dallas say about " throw away this years heat wave"?

I truly wonder if one or two years becomes one or two DECADES of HIGHER THAN EXPECTED summer temperatures?

I.E. ... the area of 20+ days > 96F' could be enlarged
I guess I should review the latest temperature trend in Chicago ?!!

It's best to read and re-read the recommendations of Bald Loonie ( post #2)

THERE will ALWAYS be a DILEMNA out there as so well expressed by TommyKnocker in post #8.

I trust MY Calculations AFTER I review them and have assessed their inaccuracies, if any.
... "The Art" of equipment selection.

Trying to maintain < 75'F inside temperature is a great benefit
to the local utility. Equipment performance is simply not as efficient. !..!!.!!!.
You effectively have been forced to donate an ~extra $100 / month to your favorite charity.

I know from your post stating " running from 10 am - 8 pm" that the
old -jet engine- unit is likely underperforming
unless you are talking about days
where it's still > 90'F at 7 pm.

[Zomby]

What would someone from Dallas say about " throw away this years heat wave"?

I truly wonder if one or two years becomes one or two DECADES of HIGHER THAN EXPECTED summer temperatures?

I.E. ... the area of 20+ days > 96F' could be enlarged
I guess I should review the latest temperature trend in Chicago ?!!

It's best to read and re-read the recommendations of Bald Loonie ( post #2)

THERE will ALWAYS be a DILEMNA out there as so well expressed by TommyKnocker in post #8.

I trust MY Calculations AFTER I review them and have assessed their inaccuracies, if any.
... "The Art" of equipment selection.

Trying to maintain < 75'F inside temperature is a great benefit
to the local utility. Equipment performance is simply not as efficient. !..!!.!!!.
You effectively have been forced to donate an ~extra $100 / month to your favorite charity.

I know from your post stating " running from 10 am - 8 pm" that the
old -jet engine- unit is likely underperforming
unless you are talking about days
where it's still > 90'F at 7 pm.

So what would your suggestion be from what you have seen me post? 2 ton single stage or 3 tom two stage? I would sure appreciate your opinion!

[Zomby]

I mean to say 2 ton/2 stage or 3 ton/2 stage.

All help appreciated! I have to make a decision before Monday to capitalize of our power companies financing and rebates.

[Zomby]

Looks like this topic died, so thanks for all the help fellas. I think I am going to go with the Bryant system but ask him to install a 2 ton/2 stage - Unless he is convincingly strong in his 3 ton recommendation.

One question though. When in the lower stage, is it 1/2?

Thanks,