York & JCI

[Entropie]

If you want to learn about York and it´s history / role in the industry, read this:
http://www.amazon.com/Legend-York-In.../dp/0945903170
Just keep in mind that they´ve got founded in 1874 just three years after Carl von Lindes theoretical considerations about refrigeration. They made history! And now they are history...........unfortunately. But i will never forget! If you want to explore why JCI and York came together, then just go to Google and make yourself aware of the annual salary of the CEO`s from JCI and York before and after the deal!

[desert guy]

I watched for many years from the front row JCI purchasing other companies. Sometimes multiple ones in a year to suit their business model at that particular time whether it was an HVAC Valve company or an automotive based company.
The need to purchase a large equipment manufacturer was something commonly spoken about for 10-15 years at JCI and with the huge growth on the JCI automotive side of the house the funds were there and along with the re-structuring at the branch level it was put in motion with a lot of pain and suffering as large amounts of experienced people with decades of experience were RIFFED within years or retirement while others had their job titles changed and salaries cut.
JCI is still looking for profitable mechanical contractors to gobble up and continue their search for a Fire Alarm company to purchase to compliment the Security Division. It is a huge company driven by profits for the stockholders but it has and always be a very large company with a lot of turnover that demands a lot from it's divisions most of all profitability. If a division can be made more profitable by relocating a manufacturing facility to another country then thats what global companies do regardless if it was in the same town for decades.

[york56]

It isn't just JCI , its all the large corporations today its just buisness as usual with little consideration for the working class and there families. Shareholders and there profits is all they give a **** about basicly its just a big machine thats always hungry and in order to feed its hunger it just gobbles up the competition to feed its own appitite it other words its market share and they want it all greed at the highest level the **** goes in before the name goes on.

[heavymetaldad]

I would like to see the numbers on how many YORK mechanics have left since the buyout. I have heard it is around 60% but can not prove this. If that is the case, I personally believe they have set themselves back at least five years across chiller service spectrum.

At least 50% here.
and, i still say that h. blue is green.

[klove]

At least 50% here.
and, i still say that h. blue is green.

Talked with one of the guys at the factory before I took off 3 years ago and he said that at least 70% of the senior mechanics (10 years of better) had left. A few that were near retirement stuck around 'cause the change wasn't worth the trouble, and a few found whatever it takes to stay with a company like that and have assimilated into the culture. I know several that stayed that I would love to have had with me when I restarted Dad's old business, but at this point I'd be afraid that anyone who could live in that environment would have changed - it would be a hard decision to make to take a chance like that.

[HVACFITTER562]

I know several that stayed that I would love to have had with me when I restarted Dad's old business, but at this point I'd be afraid that anyone who could live in that environment would have changed - it would be a hard decision to make to take a chance like that.

Klove,
Some of us old Legacy York dinosaurs neither like, nor have bowed to the JCI way of customer service. I have all my old York accounts dating back as far as 25 years. I have had Carrier try to get me to jump ship, and Seimans wanted me to start a service business in this area for them, but at that point in my career I elected to stay put. As a matter of fact, my district manager has taken a lot of advice on how we did things differently at York than JCI. Some of it has been implemented and some has not. It's a struggle every day, and wears you down mentally, but if they want me gone, they will have to get rid of me........ and my customers! ...... Probably why I"m still here!

[klove]

Klove,
Some of us old Legacy York dinosaurs neither like, nor have bowed to the JCI way of customer service. I have all my old York accounts dating back as far as 25 years. I have had Carrier try to get me to jump ship, and Seimans wanted me to start a service business in this area for them, but at that point in my career I elected to stay put. As a matter of fact, my district manager has taken a lot of advice on how we did things differently at York than JCI. Some of it has been implemented and some has not. It's a struggle every day, and wears you down mentally, but if they want me gone, they will have to get rid of me........ and my customers! ...... Probably why I"m still here!

I'm sure a lot of the issues are built around who you have in management in a given area and the environment that they foster. I'll leave the rest to your imagination.....

No offense intended by the statement, but I do know those that stayed who have truly assimilated into the culture, and others that have been relegated to looking for lunch time and Friday afternoon to stay sane. They have nowhere near the drive or "want to" that they had prior to the change. I'ts just a job. I'm sure you still treat your customers the way you always did, as did I. Problem is that how you treat them can't override how your employer treats them.

I gave it 3 years after jci took over. That was enough. They have no idea what they've lost in talent or morale and they never will, because they don't care to know. Money and power are their gods, and that's all they care about. He who has the gold makes the rules, and he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword. More power to ya' if you can tolerate it, brother.......

[HVACFITTER562]

They have nowhere near the drive or "want to" that they had prior to the change. I'ts just a job. I'm sure you still treat your customers the way you always did, as did I. Problem is that how you treat them can't override how your employer treats them.

Well said, and unfortunately true in many cases.

[henpeck]

Did anybody ever find out/or know how jci was doing in the market, before I lost it and wrecked the question??? Caribbean Blue

[thefrioman]

Iam an old york legacy guy worked for york for 13 years did mostly large tonnage and industrial refrigeration. Here's the jist of. JCI does not care about talent they thought that us senior mech were making to much mony cause in there eyes it was all airconditioning. to prove that point they put inexperienced people to cordinate and dispatch techs they are called Service operator Agents. They were put in control of the grease monkeys that are totaly uneducated and could be supervised by anyone thats there attitude. so know a first year apprentice gets dispatched to a centrifugal call and cant fix it and they start yelling at the first year tech and say its just airconditioning why cant you fix it

[Taicool]

Any boby recognizes this?

[york56]

Yep but all it is today is a fond memory of a better time.

[Entropie]

I like those...........

[RichardL]

Ya'll making me feel all warm & fuzzy bringing up "The Good Times" of York.I can assure one and all that if York was still around I would still be with them.

[Healey Nut]

Hope your taking notes here Jayguy ??

[GT Jets]

From what I was told, York was over $900 million dollars in debt when JCI "stepped in", it wouldn't have taken long before virtually anyone could have bought them.

Profitable they were not. Around here it was well known that if you wanted mediocre service at an astronomical price York was who you called...Their research and development was somewhat stalled and yet still had a strong product, but rest on your laurels too long in this trade and that pounding sensation wont be far behind...

JCI came in and played "where's the walnut?" which temporarily made things better, but IMHO they are worse off now they were before JCI.

I worked for one of the private companies JCI bought out for 13 years and stayed with JCI for as long as my morals would allow (about 4 years) and worked side by side with the York Legacy guys, they fought every little change to the point where nothing was getting accomplished and spent more time on "work around's" then they did doing their jobs.

I will state that I think York was great to work for because there was no one at the wheel ensuring profitability. Thats what happens you have too many chiefs and no tribal council...

Just my thoughts....Flame away.


GT

[RichardL]

From what I was told, York was over $900 million dollars in debt when JCI "stepped in", it wouldn't have taken long before virtually anyone could have bought them.

Profitable they were not. Around here it was well known that if you wanted mediocre service at an astronomical price York was who you called...Their research and development was somewhat stalled and yet still had a strong product, but rest on your laurels too long in this trade and that pounding sensation wont be far behind...

JCI came in and played "where's the walnut?" which temporarily made things better, but IMHO they are worse off now they were before JCI.

I worked for one of the private companies JCI bought out for 13 years and stayed with JCI for as long as my morals would allow (about 4 years) and worked side by side with the York Legacy guys, they fought every little change to the point where nothing was getting accomplished and spent more time on "work around's" then they did doing their jobs.

I will state that I think York was great to work for because there was no one at the wheel ensuring profitability. Thats what happens you have too many chiefs and no tribal council...

Just my thoughts....Flame away.


GT

I truly doubt that anyone here would "Flame" you for posting a well thought out post such as yours. But I was under the impression that the amount owed was 525 mil. to Citi-Corp. Hell...I been wrong before.

[GT Jets]

I truly doubt that anyone here would "Flame" you for posting a well thought out post such as yours. But I was under the impression that the amount owed was 525 mil. to Citi-Corp. Hell...I been wrong before.

While I don't know the exact figures one way or the other, I do know that the York techs were whining that they were on credit hold at numerous vendors..There are more ways to owe money than just to banks....Now they just owe it to themselves....(A knock at being publicly traded and having "A JCI company" after the word York...)

When you are a manufacturer, I guess it would be pretty easy to get upside down in a huge fashion with many large vendors.

The $900 mil was a fiscal number that was shared out of frustration by a higher up that was having a bad day...Could very well have been falsified, but I doubt it...

GT

[Entropie]

I have never heard of such a large dept or financial problems. I worked for York in Europe and we made a pretty good business through the years. I suspect that buying Sabroe wasn`t the good deal that everybody in the management expected.

[HVACFITTER562]

I have never heard of such a large dept or financial problems. I worked for York in Europe and we made a pretty good business through the years.

I was with York one month shy of 20 years when JCI bought us out, and this is the first time I have ever heard of some large debt that could not be paid off. As far as being on "credit hold", that was usually because a local office did not have their paperwork in order, not because York could not pay their bills.

There are a lot of rumors about the demise of York, most are not true. What you need to look at are the "Golden Parachutes" that York's upper management had in place when the deal went down. For those of us that had York stock, we knew that we were not going to get rich investing in it,
but is was a solid investment. Lets face it, the dividends that the York stock was paying, was no where near what we got for that stock when JCI bought us.
JCI is many things, but stupid when it comes to money is not one of them. They saw that they were heavily over invested in their automotive division, and with the down turn in the automotive industry, they needed to even out their investments. When we were brought in to JCI for our brain washing, I mean indoctrination, they told us that they bought York because we had a much larger footprint in the global HVAC marketplace. Therefore it was a no brainer to buy York and start selling Metasys from an already established clientèle base.

For those of you that never worked for York, will never understand why there is / was such a hard time transitioning over to JCI. At York corporate, a lot of the people who ran that company on a day to day basis worked their way up the ladder. Some started in manufacturing, others in sales or a service office. There were product engineers that were second and third generation York employees. And for the most part, these people were always accessible if you needed something. In our field office, we were expected to take care of the customers needs. In other words, if their was a warranty problem, FIX IT, then we will figure out who owes for what later.
It was a great place to work.
We were spun off by Borg Warner, do you think JCI could do the same?