Furnace sizing and Goodman GMH95 questions

[beenthere]

Check to see what insulation you have in those walls. Probably the same as the others.

[Homeowner314]

Does 'probably the same as the others' mean I should treat the wall exposed to the garage the same as a wall exposed to the outdoors when calculating heat loss?

If the ceiling is blown cellulose, what are the chances the walls are too, is it a near certainty?

If the walls are cellulose, they are or they will soon be packed full. I'll take off some soffits and drill the cellotex to find out if there are any voids at the top.

I think my only important unknown variable now is infiltration. Maybe a blower door service will have a spring special when the heating season ends. It looks like this house needs nothing badly enough (except for a functioning furnace) that I can't do without it for March/April/May. And I've quite firmly decided that if the house can't run on a 46k that it needs to be fixed until it can.

BTW, if I cheap out and get the GMH against all advice, is there any difference other than staging between a TH6110D and a TH6220D?

[beenthere]

Yep, treat it the same as any other exposed wall.

Nope, just staging.

[JonesHVAC-R]

Thats just the excuse many people give for doing something a certain way.Ahhh... I got ya.

So you admit there is no reason to attempt to keep a high static pressure.No, I don't. Taking velocity, cfm, etc... I still stand behind my recommendation.

Length of duct absolutly plays a factor.

[JonesHVAC-R]

OK, did some checking.

The furnace is about 5' off center, so the supply trunks are 10' and 20', not 15' each. And they're only 8x10. Good enough for a variable speed 1200cfm, or will it ramp up and overwork itself and / or make wind noise?YIKES! 8x10??? That will allow approx. 310cfm and YES will definately create a wind noise along with whistling. These absolutely need upsized.

The bigger ducts I remembered seeing were the return trunks, 10x14 and very short. This allows approximately 670cfm, they need upsized as well.

You have some issues there that need addressed

[JonesHVAC-R]

Does 'probably the same as the others' mean I should treat the wall exposed to the garage the same as a wall exposed to the outdoors when calculating heat loss?

If the ceiling is blown cellulose, what are the chances the walls are too, is it a near certainty?

If the walls are cellulose, they are or they will soon be packed full. I'll take off some soffits and drill the cellotex to find out if there are any voids at the top.

I think my only important unknown variable now is infiltration. Maybe a blower door service will have a spring special when the heating season ends. It looks like this house needs nothing badly enough (except for a functioning furnace) that I can't do without it for March/April/May. And I've quite firmly decided that if the house can't run on a 46k that it needs to be fixed until it can.

BTW, if I cheap out and get the GMH against all advice, is there any difference other than staging between a TH6110D and a TH6220D?

TH6110D is 1 heat/1 cool andTH6220D is 2 heat/2 cool. Personally I would use a different model as those two are Honeywells lower end digital...

[beenthere]

Length of duct absolutly plays a factor.

Since we're talking about the OP's duct system. Its short enough that it doesn't need to reduce. Which is what I posted earlier.

[Homeowner314]

TH6110D is 1 heat/1 cool andTH6220D is 2 heat/2 cool. Personally I would use a different model as those two are Honeywells lower end digital...

OK, I'd love to see a good debate about t-stats. Looks like the only meaningful adjustment on the Pro 6000 series is that I can tell it to use 3 cycles or 5 cycles per hour.

What T-stat do you think I should buy and what would it do for me?

Should I get the White Rodgers that looks like the Comfortnet, should I kiss my budget goodbye and get the Comfortnet?

BTW, I talked to my installer yesterday, he's afraid of my undersized ducts too and wants to see the system and map out a duct plan ASAP.
He also told me I should buy a 80%, because I'd never get the money back for a 95% when I sell the place. I don't think he realizes how cheap I can source a 95% Goodman. If propane stays at $3, I can get the difference between 80% and 95% back in one winter. And I think I can get it back on resale if I sell the house this summer.

[beshvac]

. I don't think he realizes how cheap I can source a 95% Goodman. If propane stays at $3, I can get the difference between 80% and 95% back in one winter. And I think I can get it back on resale if I sell the house this summer.

You getting the equipment thru your installer or are you gonna buy online? I guess it wouldn't matter to you if you are going to sell the house and the new owners will be stuck with no equipment warranty.

[Homeowner314]

You getting the equipment thru your installer or are you gonna buy online? I guess it wouldn't matter to you if you are going to sell the house and the new owners will be stuck with no equipment warranty.

Right now, the installer is somebody who does not sell Goodman. (and his budget brand is Gibson, which costs him more than I'd pay for Goodman)

Amazing coincidence. I was looking up Goodman's warranty this morning and found that wonderful clause. I started another thread on the warranty at exactly the same time you pointed it out to me. But thanks for the heads-up, I would have been extremely unhappy to read the warranty papers upon receipt of the unit if you hadn't pointed that out and if I hadn't downloaded the warranty.

Anyway, does buying Goodcare from either the installer or the seller fix the problem?

[beshvac]

No

I used to work in a city that had 2 goodman distributors. It was a nightmare because you had to figure out which distributor provided the product because they would only warranty what was purchased from them. So warranty claims would get kicked back by them if the unit was purchased from the "other" guy.

[Homeowner314]

Thanks, beshvac.

If I buy from the local Goodman shop, instead of buying it online and using the (non-Goodman) installer I already know and trust, and pay the extra $$$ for Goodcare, will that be transferable to the buyer when I sell the house in a year or two?

If not, I suppose there's always a claim for 'warranty of merchantability and fitness for purpose' against the internet seller and/or Goodman for the short time I have the house. Especially if I buy it from a vendor who loudly proclaims the ten year/lifetime factory warranty in his internet advertising.

[beshvac]

I don't know....I dropped goodman after poor local support for a warranty issue years ago. Which is the reason why you let the pro hvac company use the the equipment they like-because there are issues behind the scenes like warranty support, factory support, parts availability, etc.

[JonesHVAC-R]

No

I used to work in a city that had 2 goodman distributors. It was a nightmare because you had to figure out which distributor provided the product because they would only warranty what was purchased from them. So warranty claims would get kicked back by them if the unit was purchased from the "other" guy.

I would have been a bit pissy on that one, the Manufacture is who reimburses the warranty and being that the build date codes are in the serial of the furnace you should have pressed that one. I think the only issue I have had is when the warranty was close to build date and I was trying my hardest to find out when purchased as then the warranty started from that day. Now if the homeowner had there invoice with install date then that changes everything and the warranty starts from day of install. I think you ran into a supplier who didn't want the hassle.

Thanks, beshvac.

If I buy from the local Goodman shop, instead of buying it online and using the (non-Goodman) installer I already know and trust, and pay the extra $$$ for Goodcare, will that be transferable to the buyer when I sell the house in a year or two?

If not, I suppose there's always a claim for 'warranty of merchantability and fitness for purpose' against the internet seller and/or Goodman for the short time I have the house. Especially if I buy it from a vendor who loudly proclaims the ten year/lifetime factory warranty in his internet advertising.

I am an Amana dealer which is Goodman's top end furnace. I am meeting with my rep today and will double check the Goodcare policy... I know I have asked this before and for some reason it is sticking in my head that it is transferable one time... I'll let you know later tonight

[JonesHVAC-R]

OK, I'd love to see a good debate about t-stats. Looks like the only meaningful adjustment on the Pro 6000 series is that I can tell it to use 3 cycles or 5 cycles per hour.

What T-stat do you think I should buy and what would it do for me?

Should I get the White Rodgers that looks like the Comfortnet, should I kiss my budget goodbye and get the Comfortnet?


Honeywell actually designs the stats for Goodman/Amana for their whole home comfort systems. They design them to communicate better with the equipment. This being said, I always you the branded model that is similar to the Prestige 2.0. It is a great system and it has the capability to be monitored while your away from home with the RedLink system. You can adjust system temps and turn systems on and off from your Android or Apple based devices.

BTW, I talked to my installer yesterday, he's afraid of my undersized ducts too and wants to see the system and map out a duct plan ASAP.
He also told me I should buy a 80%, because I'd never get the money back for a 95% when I sell the place. I don't think he realizes how cheap I can source a 95% Goodman. If propane stays at $3, I can get the difference between 80% and 95% back in one winter. And I think I can get it back on resale if I sell the house this summer.

I will post back a bit later...

[beshvac]

I would have been a bit pissy on that one, the Manufacture is who reimburses the warranty and being that the build date codes are in the serial of the furnace you should have pressed that one. I think the only issue I have had is when the warranty was close to build date and I was trying my hardest to find out when purchased as then the warranty started from that day. Now if the homeowner had there invoice with install date then that changes everything and the warranty starts from day of install. I think you ran into a supplier who didn't want the hassle.



I am an Amana dealer which is Goodman's top end furnace. I am meeting with my rep today and will double check the Goodcare policy... I know I have asked this before and for some reason it is sticking in my head that it is transferable one time... I'll let you know later tonight

Oh...I did get "pissy" but it did not matter. Now they call me and wonder why I am not buying equipment from them and I have to remind them...."you remember when I purchased a DOA unit from you and you told me "that's what the first year warranty was for?" and "your guy that verifies the warranty has to come out and look at the unit....and he can be out there 1 week from today?" Sure my customer is going to wait a week so some warranty bubba who is going to come out and verify the NEW AC they paid for has to be FIXED???

[Homeowner314]

JonesHVAC mentioned in another thread that I found reduced BTU numbers for LP conversions on a factory site.

The link for that is here at Goodman. (page 3 of the .pdf)

They give LP output numbers more than 10% lower across the whole GMH95 model line. I assume it just means that they burn 10% less BTU of fuel on propane. Anybody with an * can post the link in this thread if they want.

[JonesHVAC-R]

Ok, here's the low down, lol. The Goodcare warranty can be transfered one time as I had thought.

[Homeowner314]

Thermostat question:
Is the 6220 dual fuel capable?
How about the 8320?

[beenthere]

No the 6220 is not a dual fuel thermostat. The 8320 is.